Frog sick after Dormancy

[Unke]

Hello!

Please excuse my English I didn't find a German forum for my question so I hope you'll be nice and might even be helpful.

I have 6 bombina orientalis, one about one year old, the others about two year old. I bought them over the course of the last year starting at february. So this year is the first where they could habe a dormancy.

I started with 3 weeks of not eating while living under my bed (about 12°C), then followed 6 weeks in my fridge (7°C). Now they are back in their vivarium and 5 of them are climbing, swiming, jumping, etc. normally, and all of them seem to have not changed weight in this two month.

The reason I'm writing (and the reason I endet their frigde life) is the sixth frog, one of the two year olds. She looks sickly, is really thin, has a really dark color (and even when my sister played with her she never changed colors), she does not like to swim, climb or jump. Most of the time she just lays around (she not even sits!). She does not even eat normally, but with some talking to I managed to at least feed her two small crickets in the last week.

I'm really worried about Nicky (that's her name), because she is my favorit and she was so lively, always exploring everything even outside the vivarium.

Does any of you know what might be her problem? To me it looks like her body didn't switch to standby (whatever you call it) like it did for the other toads and now Nicky is starving.

Any help to make her feel better is really appreciated. Thanks for reading so far.

Greatings, Unke

[Leefrogs]

I feel for u. Check the froggie first aide and send personal message to Paul and Kurt. Those guts know their stuff. Good luck

[Han]

Hi Unke

You should look at the site (and forum) of DGHT: Deutsche Gesellschaft fur
Herpetologie und Terrarienkunde. Might be a lot easier to explain everything
in your own language.
You didn't tell us anything about the habitat-conditions your toads spent
almost a year, size, lighting, temps, ventilation etc. Were they well-fed before
they went into the fridge? Food? Let me guess: crickets as a main course.
Not a good idea. You definitely should try earthworms for food
Another bad idea: playing with them. Buy your sister a hamster, barbie or whatever,
but leave the toads alone. Poor things.

Han

[Unke]

I feel for u. Check the froggie first aide and send personal message to Paul and Kurt. Those guts know their stuff. Good luck

Thanks. I checked the first aid and than her and she shows no other symptons of infection or parasites. Today she even looks much better. Her color is a lot lighter and she seems to have gained some weigth (at least compared to last week).

I think she is still somewhat apathetic, but I might be wrong seeing as I didn't get to see er with the lights on.

Guess I have a whole year too figure out what caused this and and make it better the next winter.

You didn't tell us anything about the habitat-conditions your toads spent almost a year, size, lighting, temps, ventilation etc.

The lived in a small tank (60cm * 30cm * 30cm) with a daylight neon lamp and at room temperature. Depending on the weather conditions the tank lid was entirely open or just the ventilation slots were. There was about 70% water of differenting depth and some gravel, roots and a coconut hut to play with.

You definitely should try earthworms for food

I actually heard this was a really bad idea, since the earth is full of toxins and so the earthworms are too. I read some shocking stories of toads dying painfully of that.

Another bad idea: playing with them.

May I ask why? Especially Nicky seemed to be bored in the tank and really enjoyed the attention. She even now comes to sit on persons's hands if given the chance.

[s6t6nic6l]

May I ask why? Especially Nicky seemed to be bored in the tank and really enjoyed the attention. She even now comes to sit on persons's hands if given the chance.

nice having a placid toad innit!!!. just remember prior to handling it is best to rinse your hands under running cold water and then thoroughly wash them with soap after each "play".

[Han]

Hardly anything wrong with the set-up except for the size of it:
a bit overcrowded if you ask me with 6 toads in it.
<since the earth is full of toxins and so the earthworms are too> appears
to be an often heard excuse of lazy care-takers who love to buy
all kinds of inferior food-items instead of catching their own: absolute nonsense!
I'd love to read <shocking stories of toads dying painfully of that>, please let me know
where i can find them.
The silly habit of projecting human emotions on animals is called antropomorphism:
toads don't "play", are never "bored", don't "fall in love", they don't like nor recognize you etc. Their maindrives are fear, hunger and reproduction, so if not scared to death they will appear once you get in front of their tank: movement could mean food, you know, and starving they are with a cricket main-dish.
Oh, by the way, i've always mistrusted people that name their amphibians, for
some reason or another. Silly me.

Han

[Unke]

Hardly anything wrong with the set-up except for the size of it:
a bit overcrowded if you ask me with 6 toads in it.

I know. Only 4 of them lived in it, the little toad lived in an extra vivarium because they sometimes confused her with food. And one of the girls was bought only some weeks before the dormancy (of course I asked the pet shop clerk if she would be fed well enough, and was ready to let her live in the tank by herself if she for some reason seemed sickly).

Now all of them live in a giant tank (130 cm * 45 cm * 40 cm), but this wasn't the question, was it?

I'd love to read <shocking stories of toads dying painfully of that>, please let me know where i can find them.

If you're fluent in German I can look if I find them again. And I do not want to harm my pets with not giving them earthworms - I am just scared for their health. If I thought it was safe I would gladly run around collecting worms. That might good for my health, too. ^^

toads don't "play", are never "bored", don't "fall in love", they don't like nor recognize you etc

I think you give them to little credit. They definitively do recognize the spoon I feed them with. And I think they do recognize hands, too. For some of them it might be just a warm spot to relax, but the ones I had to shoo away when they wanted to eat the small toad seem to fear hands, too.

And how can you possible tell their not bored? There are so many psychological animal illnesses known (ever saw a lion running in circles in a zoo? it's one of them), how do you know a toad is not able to feel boredom?

I spent some time watching them, and they do behave differently when put in a new habitat. So they remember to some degree what their surroundings look like. The easyly scared ones will immediately try to hide, the extroverted will explore everything.

[Ezequiel]

I think you give them to little credit. They definitively do recognize the spoon I feed them with. And I think they do recognize hands, too. For some of them it might be just a warm spot to relax, but the ones I had to shoo away when they wanted to eat the small toad seem to fear hands, too.

Yes, they recognize some things.
They relate your spoon as a source of food.
They don´t like being handled; they are cold-blood animals and our hands are at 37º, so the contact with our skin burns them. In addition, they get stressed and our hands could carry harmful things (considerating amphibians skin is very sensitive).

And how can you possible tell their not bored? There are so many psychological animal illnesses known (ever saw a lion running in circles in a zoo? it's one of them), how do you know a toad is not able to feel boredom?

I give you an advice: don´t compare humans, mammals or birds with amphibians (...reptiles or fish).
Amphibians, reptiles and fish are a bit related in some aspects.

I spent some time watching them, and they do behave differently when put in a new habitat. So they remember to some degree what their surroundings look like. The easyly scared ones will immediately try to hide, the extroverted will explore everything.

Obviously they will behave differently in other set up. They segregate more toxins in this or similar situations.
One more adevice: if you want the best for your animals, follow the advice the people in this forums give you.
Excuse my English.
Bye

[Unke]

If you say so. Then how would I move the frogs without touching them? Their way to active for some kind of dip net.

I give you an advice: don´t compare humans, mammals or birds with amphibians (...reptiles or fish).

Funny... since in Europe (at least in Germany for sure) the amount of people actually believing that all these had some common ancestors is getting bigger.

Obviously they will behave differently in other set up. They segregate more toxins in this or similar situations.

Why would some of them move around more in this case? And why not all of them?

One more adevice: if you want the best for your animals, follow the advice the people in this forums give you.

I'm not someone to blindly follow advice. But If you explain things to me rationally (like you did, thanks for that) I'll do everything for them.

[Ezequiel]

If you say so. Then how would I move the frogs without touching them? Their way to active for some kind of dip net.

You can touch them the just and necessary, only when you clean/rebuild the aquaterrarium, when you see it´s something wrong with them, etc.

Why would some of them move around more in this case? And why not all of them?

Because, for some toads the changes will be more drastic than for others. It will depend on the specimen.
Bye