Is sphagnum too acid?

[Molch]

Hi all,
sphagnum moss is often recommended as substrate for frogs, but when I tested some of that New Zealand sphagnum that comes in a dry package, its acidity was around pH 6 or less - isn't that too acid?

[smashtoad]

Sphagnum moss is awesome. Plants love it, frogs love it.

Just curious...what prompted you to test the acidity of New Zealand Sphag when everyone under the sun uses it with great success?

[Molch]

Sphagnum moss is awesome. Plants love it, frogs love it.

Just curious...what prompted you to test the acidity of New Zealand Sphag when everyone under the sun uses it with great success?

well, I was confused: one book recommended sphagnum, but also said that any substrate below 6.2 pH or so would be too acid. Well, the sphagnum was at the most pH 6 - so what's up with that?

How I tested: I soaked sphagnum in a small amount of water over night and then tested the pH of that water after 24 hours. I used 3 water sources: river water (original pH 7.4), bottled water (7) and melted snow (6.2).
All 3 water types had gone to 6 or lower (my test kit only goes to 6) after 24 hrs.

Maybe I need a more sensitive pH tester, like one of those digital ones

[Ebony]

Hi, Ive used sphagnum moss for years. My oldest frogs are 6 years old and were raised from tadpoles. Ive never used the dry moss. I get my moss from fresh from the NZ west coast forest floors. My friend owns it and its basically a place that is untouched. Ive never had problems. What you have discovered is very interesting. I would be interested to know what the brand is.

[Molch]

the brand is Zoo Med New Zealand Sphagnum moss - sold in a little dry brick, but other than being dry it looks pretty unprocessed.

[smashtoad]

I get my moss from fresh from the NZ west coast forest floors. My friend owns it and its basically a place that is untouched...

The thought of collecting my own sphag from a NZ forest floor does things to me normally reserved for my wife...wow. Good for you, man.

I use "Better-Gro / Premium Grade Orchid Moss" which is carried by Lowe's. It comes from Chile, and I have had zero issues. There is an amazing terrarium moss that pops up out of it after 1.5 years or so.

First the spag itself comes to life, but after several months it dies off...just keep it very damp and well lit, and it will come to life. Below is a shot from my 56 column. The moss that this terribilis is sitting on, as well as the moss growing on the sarong vine at eleven o'clock, is in the process of covering the entire bottom of the tank and ALL of the wood on the tank floor.




In the shot below you can see a closeup of the moss on the right side. It is very small, unlike Selaginella, which I tried but turned out to be more like a little bush than moss, but I guess it is a fern, so I should have known better. The moss carpet I always dreamed of came to me for free from sphagnum moss...but it took about 18 months



Here is the whole tank...

[Molch]

that's amazing - and I've always exchanged the sphagnum for fresh stuff when I clean. So you just leave the old stuff in? Doesn't its acidity inhibit microorganisms that would break down poop? Isn't that why we get peat bogs?

[smashtoad]

I want to pause here a second and point something out...I am not sure anything I have said would be valid without one very important thing: moving water. The tank above has approx three gallons of water being circulated and dropped over that flow log all the time...so a water feature is VERY important, if not critical, to the long term success of a closed viv.

And as far as the peat bog issue goes...I'm not sure. But breaking down poo and such is accomplished to some extent by the moss, the plants, and aided by the moving water and misting...and I also have thrown springtails and isopods into the tank...don't forget those little guys.

As to cleaning...there is no cleaning. Just prune, add water, and clean glass.