Very Sick Red Eyed Tree Frog

[kimmy]

Hi guys I really need somebody's help on this one .

Between me and my boyfriend we have 5 red eyed tree frogs. I got them for my birthday last year and around 2 months ago we picked up some more. They were all in the same tank until my new boy, Frank, had a prolapse. We swiftly removed him from the tank and gave him a sugar bath, when his prolapse had gone we put him into our quarantine tank. After about a week he looked like the most healthiest frog in the world and we were thinking about putting him back in with the others. At this point we noticed that my old boy, Yoshi, the one I have had had for over a year was looking a little strange.
His skin was dotted with neon spots and he was staying a dark colour. He is normally able to turn a purple dark colour due to his genetic phenotype. When we noticed this we stopped spraying the tank to let the humidity drop in case this was the problem. After another day or two he started becoming lethargic and not getting up at night for feeding. His colours were still off but now they had turn into blotches as opposed to spots. We took him out and put him into the quarantine tank. He woke up in the tank and did what looked like diarrhea, it was a runny viscous liquid with a slight tinge to it with only a small few bits in it. After about a week in total, from first noticing the signs, he started to sleep on the floor of the tank, opening his eyes halfway every now and again. Each day I put him back onto the glass where the heat mat is. The first couple of times I did this he had no energy to be scared of me, usually he wouldn't let me pick him up. In the tank he is in at the moment there are some fake silk ficus, a vine, water dish and paper towels. When I move him off the paper towels there seems to be what looks like blood underneath his bottom where he was lying.
He has also got some skin stuck to himself as he was trying to shed the other night and I don't think he had the energy to do it. It is now nearly two weeks since he first started getting sick and about a week or a little over since he has eaten. His colours seems to be going back to normal on his back but his colours themselves are still faded. My boyfriend and I think he might have beaten whatever infection he had and now he is just starving.
I haven't had enough money to have him seen to by a vet but I have called a few times asking for help and all I've been told each time was that I needed to bring him in. He is very fragile at the best of times and moving him in the car isn't an option as the nearest amphibian vet is over an hour away. Earlier in the week I was able to get a hold of some Baytril that a friend has been keeping just as a precaution for their frog. It is the oral solution 2.5 but I'm a weary of using this as I don't know the correct dose or even how to administer it.
Last night he was alseep on the paper towels and I tried to feed him with a tweezer. I used a half dead cricket that had vits on it and had been soaked in water to make it soft for him. I wiggled it in front of his face and he opened his eyes, I then touched his nose again with it and he backed up like he was scared, he tucked his front legs under himself and closed his eyes. I'm very worried that he's not eating as he's not getting any nutrients and I fear that he's going to die of starvation, that is if he's beaten the infection.
A few hours later we sprayed him with a mixture of AviPro, Calcium and a multivitamin. He didn't like it very much and got up off the floor and walked up the back wall. This was fine until he slipped off the wall and landed on the floor, where he's been sleeping since. I don't want to stress him out anymore because I know that it's probably worse than me not doing anything.

The picture is him about 3-4 days ago when we put him into the quarantine tank.

If anybody has any advice or could even hazard a guess I'd really appreciate it. He's my little baby and I don't want to lose him

[flybyferns]

Kimmy,
I'm very sorry your frog is ill.
You will loose him if he does not get to a vet.
Sadly, it's as simple as that.

Baytril is a very strong antibiotic and needs the advice of the vet as to when to use it.
There are other medicines that might be safer, more effective and with less side effects.

He must be separated from the other frogs for a long time and housed in a proper " hospital " enclosure.
In fact, you might seek advice ( from the vet) as to weather or not to treat all of them?

[kimmy]

Kimmy,
I'm very sorry your frog is ill.
You will loose him if he does not get to a vet.
Sadly, it's as simple as that.

Baytril is a very strong antibiotic and needs the advice of the vet as to when to use it.
There are other medicines that might be safer, more effective and with less side effects.

Hi Flybyferns

Thanks for your reply . I realize that the best option is for him to be seen by a vet and if I could afford to this I would :/
He is out of the quarantine tank and is in a bath at the moment. We want to try everything possible for my little guy but I feel that it might be too late.

[kimmy]

All of the other frogs so far haven't shown any signs of being sick and they are all separated bar one. He is being removed tonight when he wakes up. I will have to keep a close eye on them but I don't think he had a contagious disease as it might have already taken hold if this was the case.

I'm also very surprised that he has even made it this far, usually around 3 days after you start seeing signs your frog dies. This is what leads me to believe he has nearly beaten the illness and is now severely starved.

[Shade38]

I'm sorry your frog is so sick.

Edited because I misread something in your previous update.

[Heatheranne]

Hi Kimmy,

Your frog is still sick . The patterns on his skin are indicative of an infection.

Perhaps you can call your local vet and ask if they will prescribe Metronidazole. It is gentler than Baytril and often works well. I recovered 3 of mine on Metro. I would also use SSD cream applied daily to his skin.

Another option is to call and email Dr.Frye. He will sometimes mail the medications to you. He helped me with all of mine who are healthy again since. Your frog needs treated soon.

Now that he is not eating he will not have much energy to fight back. You'll need to feed him. I would use reptaboost daily until he eats or gently force feed.

dr.frye.vetatmilan@gmail.com

(734) 439-2273 Dr. Frye's office #

Good luck and please keep us posted!

(P.S. Dr. Frye helped me heal by babies I took in as an adoption bc they were so sick. They were dehydrated, not eating, and infected. I did have to soak them and force feed them for a week and a half or so.)

Before...

After...

[kimmy]

Hi Kimmy,

Your frog is still sick . The patterns on his skin are indicative of an infection.

Perhaps you can call your local vet and ask if they will prescribe Metronidazole. It is gentler than Baytril and often works well. I recovered 3 of mine on Metro. I would also use SSD cream applied daily to his skin.

Another option is to call and email Dr.Frye. He will sometimes mail the medications to you. He helped me with all of mine who are healthy again since. Your frog needs treated soon.

Now that he is not eating he will not have much energy to fight back. You'll need to feed him. I would use reptaboost daily until he eats or gently force feed.

dr.frye.vetatmilan@gmail.com

(734) 439-2273 Dr. Frye's office #

Good luck and please keep us posted!

(P.S. Dr. Frye helped me heal by babies I took in as an adoption bc they were so sick. They were dehydrated, not eating, and infected. I did have to soak them and force feed them for a week and a half or so.)

Hey Heatheranne

We brought Yoshi down to our local vet today, he had never even heard of a red eyed tree frog before so we went in using your advice. We told him all the symptoms and what we thought was wrong with him. He prescribed us a dilute solution of 2.5% oral Baytril. He told us to dilute this even further , 0.2ml per 100ml. He told us the best way to administer this was to drop it onto his skin or to make up a solution and to spray him with it.
He also gave us a dilute solution of Flagyl (Metronidazole). This has to be administered as is (0.02ml of an already dilute solution) with food or water orally.


How would you suggest force feeding him as he is very delicate and I can't picture him being able to swallow. The vet also gave a soft plastic tip syringe for administration directly into his mouth.

When we brought him back from the vet we mixed up the baytril solution as we weren't sure about the flagyl. We dropped a few drops all over his body to make sure we covered him. He is in a faunarium at the minute wrapped in a towel with a heat mat. His neon spots were coming back but this is probably due to the humidity in the box. We hope that the baytril will help but we are more concerned about how to administer the Flagyl as this will need to be given on a course (once daily for 5 -7 days)

[flybyferns]

<How would you suggest force feeding him as he is very delicate and I can't picture him being able to swallow.
The vet also gave a soft plastic tip syringe for administration directly into his mouth. >

Use mushed legless , headless crickets and put them into the syringe mixed w/ the flagyl so that you don't have to 'pry' his mouth open twice.
Very gently pry his little 'lips' open .....not the very corner but off center
Hold him wrapped him in damp paper towels when you do this /otherwise you could scrape his skin

Kimmy, very important......... do you see him shed ? When on medicine... he will shed more often. Get he food and flagyl ready and squish it into his mouth when he 'yawns' during a shed. This works like a charm. I did this for 7 weeks every time my black eyed tree frog shed. I waited around after the light s went out. They will typically shed as soon as they wake up at nights ( after lights out ). Practice handling your syringe ie filling it and see how fast the mixture comes out. I would suggest use the bodies of 2 small crickets and mush w/ the flagyl. You will want to keep amount you are pushing in as small as possible and on the thicker side so he does not choke. He will take care of swallowing. There increased chance of choking if it is very watery.

Can you please post a photo of that syringe?

Heat....careful. How about putting a thermometer right in there next to him.. You don't want to overheat him? He does not need extra heat.

Lynn

[kimmy]

<How would you suggest force feeding him as he is very delicate and I can't picture him being able to swallow.
The vet also gave a soft plastic tip syringe for administration directly into his mouth. >

Use mushed legless , headless crickets and put them into the syringe mixed w/ the flagyl so that you don't have to 'pry' his mouth open twice.
Very gently pry his little 'lips' open .....not the very corner but off center
Hold him wrapped him in damp paper towels when you do this /otherwise you could scrape his skin

Kimmy, very important......... do you see him shed ? When on medicine... he will shed more often. Get he food and flagyl ready and squish it into his mouth when he 'yawns' during a shed. This works like a charm. I did this for 7 weeks every time my black eyed tree frog shed. I waited around after the light s went out. They will typically shed as soon as they wake up at nights ( after lights out ). Practice handling your syringe ie filling it and see how fast the mixture comes out. I would suggest use the bodies of 2 small crickets and mush w/ the flagyl. You will want to keep amount you are pushing in as small as possible and on the thicker side so he does not choke. He will take care of swallowing. There increased chance of choking if it is very watery.

Can you please post a photo of that syringe?

Heat....careful. How about putting a thermometer right in there next to him.. You don't want to overheat him? He does not need extra heat.

Lynn

That's a great idea and I was thinking about doing something very similar to that
He was shedding the after we gave him his medicine .. 3-4 drops baytril on Friday night and 3-4 drops Flagyl on Saturday night. He seemed like he wasn't having any difficulties which is really good. He also looks like he's spruced up a bit since then. I don't want to force feed unless absolutely necessary.
He is asleep in the QT Viv half on the heat mat. The heat mat isn't directly stuck to the glass either




This is the Baytril, syringes, Flagyl solution and a measuring jug. The syringe in the pack is the one we were given with a soft tip for feeding, I'm not removing it from the pack until it needs to be used as it is sterile at the minute

[Heatheranne]

I read your post again and I am also concerned about the diarrhea and blood. Perhaps he picked up a parasite? If so, he'll need a deworming medication also, likely Panacur.

My concern with the Baytril is that my vet mixed the proper solution for me and then just told me how many drops to apply nightly. It seems to be irritating to their skin and must be monitored closely. I was advised to use it on the 2
two I recovered prior to the other three I saved. (I recovered 5 of 6 frogs in bad shape. The sickest one didn't pull through). Anyway, Metronidizole is the first line medication often used bc it treats bacteria, fungus, and some protozoan infections that frogs most often acquire. It does not irritate their skin in most cases, and also stimulates appetite.

How is he today?

[Heatheranne]

I used to wrap my babies up in a moist dechlorinated watered paper towel like this...

If he starts to wiggle, just very gently put your finger on his head. He will likely relax in the paper towel though. Be sure it's at room temp so you don't chill or heat him. Bc he is so weak I doubt he will fight you.

A friend here on e told me she used a clean guitar pick to open her frogs mouth. I used my thoroughly washed (with plain dawn dish soap), thoroughly rinsed , and dried pointer finger nail and very, very carefully slid it in just enough for the syringe to follow. Lynn's idea is great and is less stressful. At this point you have to do what's best for him. Another good food for him is blenderized earth worm or night crawler. Kinda gross, but healthy for them. Put a small amt of dechlorinated water in with the worm when blending or mushing. You can add some crickets and calcium or vita's too. Just a smidge though.

I used to soak Twigs right in his paper towel for hydration. After he ate I'd set the tail of the paper towel he was in into his fresh dechlor water before applying his topical medications. Once he got used to it, he seemed to relax like it felt good. A regular soak is ok too. I would not recommend not holding the paper towel as I did for this photos. Twigs is extremely mellow and used to his paper towels. I would just gently hold it in for about 5 to 15 minutes. Up to you. This is only needed if he looks dehydrated or isn't peeing much. It is important to have good hydration with Baytril so he may filter and excrete is in his urine.


Both the Metro/Flagyl (same med, different names for it) and Baytril I used were applied topically as liquid drops.

My Metro was a liquid solution of 500mg per 100ml premixed in which I applied 3 drops daily to his back. My Baytril was a premix by them in which I applied 2 drops daily to his back. Wait at least 10 to 15 minutes between medications to allow absorption. If the Baytril seems to hurt him, let me know.

Be super careful between handling him and your other frogs. It may be a good idea to wear latex-free, powder-free gloves when caring for your sick baby. Do your healthy frogs' care first. And wash thoroughly after handling your sick one.

How is he doing today?

Please pardon the gaps in my responses, as I am working night shift this weekend and I'm a bit off kilter.

[flybyferns]

Thanks Heath!
I was hoping you would post these photos.
I could not find mine .

Kimmy ......let us know how things are going. Fingers crossed !

Heath,
I don't know how you do it ? Get some shut eye !!!! Take your vitamins (A , E and C) !
See you soon.

[kimmy]

I used to wrap my babies up in a moist dechlorinated watered paper towel like this...

If he starts to wiggle, just very gently put your finger on his head. He will likely relax in the paper towel though. Be sure it's at room temp so you don't chill or heat him. Bc he is so weak I doubt he will fight you.

A friend here on e told me she used a clean guitar pick to open her frogs mouth. I used my thoroughly washed (with plain dawn dish soap), thoroughly rinsed , and dried pointer finger nail and very, very carefully slid it in just enough for the syringe to follow. Lynn's idea is great and is less stressful. At this point you have to do what's best for him. Another good food for him is blenderized earth worm or night crawler. Kinda gross, but healthy for them. Put a small amt of dechlorinated water in with the worm when blending or mushing. You can add some crickets and calcium or vita's too. Just a smidge though.

I used to soak Twigs right in his paper towel for hydration. After he ate I'd set the tail of the paper towel he was in into his fresh dechlor water before applying his topical medications. Once he got used to it, he seemed to relax like it felt good. A regular soak is ok too. I would not recommend not holding the paper towel as I did for this photos. Twigs is extremely mellow and used to his paper towels. I would just gently hold it in for about 5 to 15 minutes. Up to you. This is only needed if he looks dehydrated or isn't peeing much. It is important to have good hydration with Baytril so he may filter and excrete is in his urine.


Both the Metro/Flagyl (same med, different names for it) and Baytril I used were applied topically as liquid drops.

My Metro was a liquid solution of 500mg per 100ml premixed in which I applied 3 drops daily to his back. My Baytril was a premix by them in which I applied 2 drops daily to his back. Wait at least 10 to 15 minutes between medications to allow absorption. If the Baytril seems to hurt him, let me know.

Be super careful between handling him and your other frogs. It may be a good idea to wear latex-free, powder-free gloves when caring for your sick baby. Do your healthy frogs' care first. And wash thoroughly after handling your sick one.

How is he doing today?

Please pardon the gaps in my responses, as I am working night shift this weekend and I'm a bit off kilter.

That is a great idea by wrapping them in paper towels for feeding . I wouldn't feel comfortable doing this with Yoshi cause he's still only very small compared to our fully grown female. I would be more than happy to do this with her if she ever gets sick so thanks for the tip

He is in his QT viv at the minute and he's looking quite well. He still has very little energy but he was up and walking around last night , he hasn't done this in a while

I very very very rarely handle the frogs, it scares me to pick them cause they're so so delicate. I don't mind with Yoshi at the moment cause I know he's sick but as soon as he's better he wont be handle. The same applies to all the others. I should invest in latex gloves for the future though

Thanks for your help I really appreciate it
I'll have a few pictures later on in the week of his progress

[flybyferns]

Hi Kimmy,
It's great to hear things seem to be stable. Fingers crossed !

[Heatheranne]

Yw, Lynn . Holy moly I'm whooped, lol!

[Heatheranne]

If he doesn't eat for you, you could do a luke warm plain pedialyte and dechlorinated water solution at a ratio of ten parts dechlorinated or spring water to one part pedialyte. Only use the unflavored. Soak him for 15 minutes. This will give him necessary fluids and essential electrolytes.

[kimmy]

If he doesn't eat for you, you could do a luke warm plain pedialyte and dechlorinated water solution at a ratio of ten parts dechlorinated or spring water to one part pedialyte. Only use the unflavored. Soak him for 15 minutes. This will give him necessary fluids and essential electrolytes.

Thanks for the advice Heather We have diorolyte here which is the same, we are getting some from the chemist tonight
I tried to coax him with a cricket last night and he turn away from me and closed his eyes so he still isn't really interested in food. Since we started his treatment on Friday he seems to be more active, not a huge amount but a noticable difference. Hopefully his meds combined with the Diorolyte might help with his apatite

[Heatheranne]

You're welcome . Great! Maybe he'll start feeling better and will want to eat soon. Crossing my fingers for you!

[kimmy]

Hey guys

I come with some very sad news .. At some stage last night or this morning my little baby Yoshi passed away
Thank you for all your help ... We did the best we could but in the end he was just too weak to fight the infection.

R.I.P Yoshi <3

[flybyferns]

Kimmy,
I'm so sorry to hear this.
It is very difficult when they are not eating.
Even more difficult to determine the order of things:
(environment/stress/not eating/parasites/infection) it's all related..

SEARCH...... For a qualified vet in your area. There must be one ?
It's so Important to have someone to bring them to when they are ill.
Sadly, by the time a red ey tree frog looks and is acting ill... .. They are likely , very ill.
Lynn