Results 1 to 15 of 15

Thread: Tree frogs and toads? large tank

  1. #1
    kittiekuddles
    Guest

    Default Tree frogs and toads? large tank

    I am currently setting up a terrarium. The tank is 220 gallons, 6 feet long, 24" wide and 31" tall
    Plants will be Bromeliads, ferns, pothos and various tropical house plants. Bottom is river rocks and pea gravel for drainage, followed by a screen to separate the soil. Soil is a mix of peat and compost top soil about 3" deep
    Other items in the tank will be driftwood, cork and tree limbs
    Lighting will be 4x65 watt power compacts, i do have metal halides but i feel that may burn things lol (3x250 watt) so i will not be using those
    Tank will be covered by glass lids with about 10% screened in the back for ventilation.
    I also purchased a large lizard lagoon for soaking
    I've gone through various species of frog and I came down to wanting a pair of White's Tree frog.
    Then i thought the bottom floor of the terrarium will be kinda drab with no action going on, so is it possible to put a type of toad or other frog that stays on the terrarium floor and still be compatible with the whites frogs?
    I was thinking of a Chubby frog or possibly an American toad (one or the other not both) and starting out at the same size.
    Will anything like this work?

  2. # ADS
    Circuit advertisement
     

  3. #2
    100+ Post Member Ebony's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Nationality
    [New Zealand]
    Location
    Christchurch
    Posts
    1,860
    Picture Albums: Member Photo Albums

    Default Re: Tree frogs and toads? large tank

    Hi kittiekuddles and welcome to the forum.

    Sorry but its not a good idea to mix species as they can secret toxins to each other which can be harmful. There are many ways to beautify the bottom of your enclosure. Mosses and leaf litter give a lovely natural look. have a look around at some albums to get ideas. I look forward to seeing some photos of your frogs.

  4. #3
    kittiekuddles
    Guest

    Default Re: Tree frogs and toads? large tank

    Thanks so much
    Leaf litter sounds pretty, I did buy a small box of frog moss
    So i will just go with a pair of whites tree frogs. Do they ever come down to the bottom? my concern was will the crickets stay at the bottom and not be eaten by the whites frogs?
    and then i will have crickets breeding and it will just be gross lol

  5. #4
    SethD
    Guest

    Default Re: Tree frogs and toads? large tank

    Quote Originally Posted by kittiekuddles View Post
    I am currently setting up a terrarium. The tank is 220 gallons, 6 feet long, 24" wide and 31" tall
    Plants will be Bromeliads, ferns, pothos and various tropical house plants. Bottom is river rocks and pea gravel for drainage, followed by a screen to separate the soil. Soil is a mix of peat and compost top soil about 3" deep
    Other items in the tank will be driftwood, cork and tree limbs
    Lighting will be 4x65 watt power compacts, i do have metal halides but i feel that may burn things lol (3x250 watt) so i will not be using those
    Tank will be covered by glass lids with about 10% screened in the back for ventilation.
    I also purchased a large lizard lagoon for soaking
    I've gone through various species of frog and I came down to wanting a pair of White's Tree frog.
    Then i thought the bottom floor of the terrarium will be kinda drab with no action going on, so is it possible to put a type of toad or other frog that stays on the terrarium floor and still be compatible with the whites frogs?
    I was thinking of a Chubby frog or possibly an American toad (one or the other not both) and starting out at the same size.
    Will anything like this work?

    Well that is a large setup, and white tree frogs are large, tough, and bold eaters. If you want to mix species that isn't a species likely to suffer from it as long as a little common sense is used. The american toad is also a tough species that is a bold eater with a similar adult size( a large female toad would be best) and would likely do fine in there with a whites tree frog provided the size of the individual whites tree frog and the individual toad is similar so the one didn't try to eat the other. The "chubby frog" I wouldn't think was a good idea to mix for a couple of reasons, for one, the ones I have seen around are small enough that a large adult whites might try to eat one, for another they produce a sticky slime when stressed and would in my estimation be far more likely to cause a problem in that bi-species tank with a whites than the american toad.

    Now I am only saying this because your post seems to be a cut above the average "can I keep my fire bellied toad with... " fill in the blank type posts. You seem to come across as the type of person that is capable of learning quite a bit in a short time. Mixing species can be done quite successfully, but you do need to be fairly knowledgeable about the species you have in mind as well as be the type of person that is observant, thinks things through, and has a certain amount of common sense. Otherwise your just flipping a coin with your frogs lives and health. Uninformed species mixers that have problems usually have them because they make bad choices due to not really know what they are doing. Because newbies to the hobby are usually the ones most likely to ask about mixing species and due to a lack of knowledge are also the ones most likely to make bad choices mixing species it isn't generally recommended period. It is just easier to say no period than to give a lengthy explanation about what will work, what will not work, and what might work but is a bad idea because it is a little to risky every time someone asks this question in one form or another. That said if a person does have common sense and enough knowledge to makes informed choices I don't have a problem with it and have done it myself upon occasion. It is up to you, but from the thought and detail you appear to have put into your post I think you are capable of doing it successfully should you wish to do so.

  6. #5
    kittiekuddles
    Guest

    Default Re: Tree frogs and toads? large tank

    Thanks SethD
    and its funny that you mention american toad because that is my second favorite, i was torn between which one to pick if i had to pick just one, but if they can mix then all the better. So i will try two whites tree frogs and i think just one american toad, unless the american toad needs a buddy?
    Now i have another concern, the soil
    I want to keep bromeliads, a few larger species in the soil and the smaller ones fastened to the driftwood/tree branches. Other plants will be tropical house plants
    So right now i have my layer of rocks for drainage, a sprinkle of carbon ( a sprinkle was all i had left lol) and a screen covering that.
    I stopped at the soil part because im not sure what to do. I bought top soil and peat, the peat was the fine powdery type stuff to be mixed in the soil. All the soil mixes for terrariums (with bromeliads) called for the use of either sand or pine bark, i chose not to et sand because its course and heavy, so im leaning towards (didnt buy it yet) pine bark to mix in with the top soil and peat for better drainage
    But i dont know how this mix will work with the frogs/toads?
    I want the plants to be healthy and have good drainage but i want the frogs to be ok too
    im so confused

  7. #6
    SethD
    Guest

    Default Re: Tree frogs and toads? large tank

    Quote Originally Posted by kittiekuddles View Post
    Thanks SethD
    and its funny that you mention american toad because that is my second favorite, i was torn between which one to pick if i had to pick just one, but if they can mix then all the better. So i will try two whites tree frogs and i think just one american toad, unless the american toad needs a buddy?
    Now i have another concern, the soil
    I want to keep bromeliads, a few larger species in the soil and the smaller ones fastened to the driftwood/tree branches. Other plants will be tropical house plants
    So right now i have my layer of rocks for drainage, a sprinkle of carbon ( a sprinkle was all i had left lol) and a screen covering that.
    I stopped at the soil part because im not sure what to do. I bought top soil and peat, the peat was the fine powdery type stuff to be mixed in the soil. All the soil mixes for terrariums (with bromeliads) called for the use of either sand or pine bark, i chose not to et sand because its course and heavy, so im leaning towards (didnt buy it yet) pine bark to mix in with the top soil and peat for better drainage
    But i dont know how this mix will work with the frogs/toads?
    I want the plants to be healthy and have good drainage but i want the frogs to be ok too
    im so confused

    Your going to have problems with bromeliads with those two frogs. The toad will dig plants like that up when burrowing and the whites will crush them with its weight. You will need tough hardy plants that can take a lot of abuse. As far as substrate play sand mixed 50-50 with natural loamy earth collected from a wooded area is a good choice(you could mix in the peat as well). You can cover that with leaf litter or not as you choose. Pine bark is definitely not a good choice for two reasons, one, both pine and cedar bark leach things that can harm a amphibian, if you need to use a bark in your soil mix cypress mulch is the best. For another having any type of bark or mulch on the surface is not the best idea with the types of frogs your talking about because both of them are quite likely to ingest substrate while chasing down prey. You need something that can pass through their system without issues should they eat it and for that it is hard to beat dirt. If you want bark just to keep the soil from becoming as compacted you can use cypress mulch for that and just cover it up with dirt. That will keep it from being ingested. The toad may bring a little mulch up while digging around, but most of it will stay buried.

  8. #7
    kittiekuddles
    Guest

    Default Re: Tree frogs and toads? large tank

    Quote Originally Posted by SethD View Post
    Your going to have problems with bromeliads with those two frogs. The toads will dig plants like that up when burrowing and the whites will crush them with its weight. You will need tough hardy plants that can take a lot of abuse. As far as substrate play sand mixed 50-50 with natural loamy earth collected from a wooded area is a good choice. Pine bark is definitely not a good choice for two reasons, one, both pine and cedar bark leach things that can harm a amphibian, if you need to use a bark in your soil mix cypress bark is the best. For another any type of bark is not the best idea with the types of frogs your talking about because both of them are quite likely to ingest substrate while chasing down prey. You need something that can pass through their system without issues should they eat it and for that it is hard to beat dirt.
    ok, no pine bark
    if sand is ok to mix in then i will buy sand
    i can understand the toads digging, but dang how heavy are the whites? lol
    ahh its all making sense now, thats why people with bromeliads have those tiny little dart frogs, they dont do any damage i guess lol
    well dang this is a whole new ball game then, now what kind of plants am i going to get?
    but on the other hand...the whites that i see sold are all small babies, will the bromeliads have time to root strong by the time the whites get big? how fast do whites grow anyway?
    I take it most plants will suffer with the toad? if stuff im planting will be uprooted then forget about an american toad for sure

  9. #8
    SethD
    Guest

    Default Re: Tree frogs and toads? large tank

    Quote Originally Posted by kittiekuddles View Post
    ok, no pine bark
    if sand is ok to mix in then i will buy sand
    i can understand the toads digging, but dang how heavy are the whites? lol
    ahh its all making sense now, thats why people with bromeliads have those tiny little dart frogs, they dont do any damage i guess lol
    well dang this is a whole new ball game then, now what kind of plants am i going to get?
    but on the other hand...the whites that i see sold are all small babies, will the bromeliads have time to root strong by the time the whites get big? how fast do whites grow anyway?
    I take it most plants will suffer with the toad? if stuff im planting will be uprooted then forget about an american toad for sure

    The whites can get pretty heavy, they are a good size tree frog and rather plump as adults. There is a reason why most peoples setups for whites include thick branches and not a lot of delicate plants. The plants would suffer both from the toad and the whites. The toad isn't intentionally going to uproot anything but they do like to bury themselves at the bases of plants and plants without a extensive root system can easily become tilted or dug up all together. Brom's would be unlikely to do well with either type of frog. Yes there is indeed a reason why the most heavily planted setups with the nicest plants usually contain tiny little frogs like darts. Larger frogs can be a little more challenging when it comes to finding plants that are strong enough but can still grow in a terrarium.

  10. #9
    kittiekuddles
    Guest

    Default Re: Tree frogs and toads? large tank

    ahh ok
    so now im opting out of the whites and the toads
    i want the plants to be the main attraction more than anything
    guess those little fire bellied toads would be a better option?
    darts are out because they are too complicated to feed

  11. #10
    Tony
    Guest

    Default Re: Tree frogs and toads? large tank

    In a tank that size you would have room for some of the big sturdy bromeliads like Aechmea fasciata, large leaved Philodendron and Monstera species and other large tropicals. I wouldn't give up on a planted White's viv quite yet.

  12. #11
    kittiekuddles
    Guest

    Default Re: Tree frogs and toads? large tank

    Quote Originally Posted by Tony View Post
    In a tank that size you would have room for some of the big sturdy bromeliads like Aechmea fasciata, large leaved Philodendron and Monstera species and other large tropicals. I wouldn't give up on a planted White's viv quite yet.

    ooo ok
    and yeah one of the broms i was looking at was a aechmea kind, i think it was called silver vase or something, it was very large
    the small ones i had in mind were the ones i would fasten to the tree limbs
    this is good to hear because i was going through other frog species and nothing really thrills me, the whites are about the cutest
    those fire bellies are ok...but they just look annoying lol, like their too hyper or something lol

  13. #12
    Tony
    Guest

    Default Re: Tree frogs and toads? large tank

    Quote Originally Posted by kittiekuddles View Post
    and yeah one of the broms i was looking at was a aechmea kind, i think it was called silver vase or something, it was very large
    That is Aechmea fasciata. Make sure you get the spineless variety and remove the flower spike, tree frogs can be clumsy at times and may lose an eye to the spined varieties.

  14. #13
    kittiekuddles
    Guest

    Default Re: Tree frogs and toads? large tank

    Quote Originally Posted by Tony View Post
    That is Aechmea fasciata. Make sure you get the spineless variety and remove the flower spike, tree frogs can be clumsy at times and may lose an eye to the spined varieties.
    will do
    thanks so much

  15. #14
    charlamanda
    Guest

    Default Re: Tree frogs and toads? large tank

    When I set up my tank my Gray Tree frogs were tiny froglets and the plants I had were just perfect for them. They are now 4 months since their morph and between 1 1/3"- 2". Most of the plants I have in the tank flop over from their weight with the exception of a large snake plant. All of the frogs, in both tanks, love to back up into the snake plant, where the shoots are growing from. They create lil niches and when I can't find a few that's where they are. I have 2 in one tank and 1 in another with different types of lighting and are doing quit well in both. They can tolerate a variety of humidity and temperature changes well. The snake plant can withstand even the heaviest of tree frogs, can grow to incredible heights, but needs to be planted down several inches into the soil for adequate anchorage. I have all three plants in pots I put right into the tanks. I've read multiple times in multiple web sites that leaving the plants in their pots is a realistic alternative, especially when you go to clean out your tank. I have seen pots that are decorated with bamboo, stone, wood, all both fake and real, that would go well with a "natural" look and go completely unnoticed in your terrarium.
    I too like to have the plants be the center of attention, since the frogs mostly hide and sleep during the day. When people come to my home they love the "plant terrariums" I set up!LOL Even though most of the plants I still have in the tank simply flop over under my chubby babies weight they still look really nice so I am leaving them in there. However I have decided to add more real wood branches for them to climb and jump around on, the branches were collected from the surrounding woods, which I will bake to disinfect, and will still look "natural" and aesthetically pleasing as well as be functional for my happy froggers!
    Best of luck and I hope this info will help.

  16. #15
    kittiekuddles
    Guest

    Default Re: Tree frogs and toads? large tank

    snake plants is a good idea, and i really like them. yeah i think it would take a puppy sized frog to bend a snake plant lol
    i found a branch the other day, its huge, about 40" long and has some really nice moss patches on it, trouble is due to its large size im unsure how to make it safe. it came from the parking lot behind Giant supermarket (im from PA too ) so i imagine it came from one of their parking lot young trees, which makes me wonder if pesticides were used
    im going to hose it down several times, im not quite sure what else to do to it
    i have a heat gun lol...but i dont want to torch the dang thing lol
    pesticides is my biggest concern...would just a few hose soaks be enough to remove any pesticides? if its on there, no way of telling...unless i lick it? lol ok im getting silly now lol

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Large toads?
    By Deku in forum Toads
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: October 7th, 2010, 11:14 PM
  2. Can you keep Bullfrogs and Toads together in the same tank?
    By BIGFATTOAD in forum African Bullfrogs
    Replies: 21
    Last Post: February 9th, 2010, 05:30 PM
  3. Wanted: Large lot of pacman frogs 100+ breeder prefered
    By SpideysReptilescom in forum Wanted
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: January 21st, 2010, 08:37 PM
  4. Wanted: Large Horned Frogs
    By Jm8732 in forum Wanted
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: December 27th, 2009, 05:53 PM
  5. Large toads?
    By Deku in forum Toads
    Replies: 14
    Last Post: September 6th, 2009, 12:48 AM

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •