Hello from Atlanta GA

[SethD]

Right now Im starting with Scaphiophryne gottlebei or red rain frogs and will likely take on a few others over winter. I plan to post up my projects and show any success as I have new ideas on how to tackly successfull breeding and tad raising.

On a side note don't let them get to hot, they are quite vulnerable to heat spikes a lot like most of the mantella species. I fiddled with them some in past years but found they really needed cooler temps than I could easily provide here in texas. They seemed a pretty tough and greedy little frog otherwise though. Stunning colors as well of course. I don't really suspect new breeding tactics are likely to be needed with this species, the same basic tactics that usually work on toads and other explosive breeders will induce amplexus and while I never got eggs I only had a small group and didn't fiddle with them for more than a year or so due to the problems with heat. Best of luck with them.

[poison beauties]

Don't you think it is a little humorous that you come to the board by your own admission because you "heard about" the little anti-hybrid ruckus that one guy decided to raise over someone else's pet horned frog and now you are saying you think other people are out to stir something up because they don't agree with you? Remember this forum has not had a problem with anti-hybrid-anything extremists harassing people for their choice of pet frogs in the past, this is something new. Before no one found it necessary to lecture on the subject as if anyone who liked or produced a hybrid frog was an idiot, greedy, or somehow out to destroy the hobby. I also think your my way or the highway attitude about the hobby is a little humorous. Implying that if someone likes or has a hybrid they have the wrong hobby is kind of silly. Believe it or not yours is not the only point of view and the hobby does not begin or end with a narrow circle of like minded dart frog hobbyists who have developed their own personal code of ethics about all sorts of things and wish to thrust it into other areas of the hobby and upon other people that don't really need or want it. You won't succeed in doing that anyway, all that you will succeed in doing is in creating unnecessary conflict between many of those that are primarily dart froggers and those not so closely tied to that particular portion of the amphibian hobby. There is no reason why froggers from one part of the hobby should call froggers from another part of the hobby "greedy" and "unethical" just because they don't see the hobby through the same color lens. It is unfortunate that more dart froggers can't accept the fact that just because something doesn't fit their personal preferences and the accepted template in their portion of the hobby it is no Casus bellum on much of the rest of the frog hobby.

Absolutely its humerous, But not on my part to show up. Its humerous that froggers have been posting up hybrids and talking about mixing and noone other than Tony has had anything to counter it with. How are new hobbyists to decide what is best for them if all they see are pro mixing threads and posts on hybrids whether they are darts, toads or pacmans. Like Tony said, who are the most respected in our hobby? Its not the pacman crowd or the the ones who are mixing species or supporting it. Its us because we do the work. You are looking at this the wrong way. We are not trying to rule the hobby, We are trying to help it advance for all of us. We do the research, we do the bulk of the testing and advance the husbandry for captive breeding. We only want to help the other amphibians in the same way. And another stupid thing I hear is none of the frogs here will be used for reintroduction. Do you know why? Because more of you than not dont practice proper captive breeding practices in order to even pull it off. Do you think that the zoos and institutions can honestly cover the needs for an repopulation project? They cant and we will not ever be considered for doing our part if the hobby is divided on the simple issues. Simply put if and when there is ever a plan to start reintroducing species you will not have a clue in hell as to what it takes as you guys dont know **** about locales, line info and other little things like quarentine, testing and even how to keep your offspring and breeders tracked in order to continue unrelated lines for the benefit of their future. Do you know anything about acclimating frogs in the wild before they are released? How about setting up a proper diet and a variety that only dart froggers seem to practice? If you did know would you practice it as many of these species are on the verge of and will disapear from the wild in time. Without the help of a dedicated hobby the reintroduction projects will fail and wont be able to produce what we can. It seems to me you guys need more Dart Froggers on the boards helping to share knowledge that will better the hobby. If you have been a paet of the herp hobby for as long as I have youve seen the changes and you know where its going wrong. Is there anything wrong with wanting to know where exactly your frogs came from and what they are related to and how to go about continuing the lines without unneeded inbreeding or selective breeding.

On a side note don't let them get to hot, they are quite vulnerable to heat spikes a lot like most of the mantella species. I fiddled with them some in past years but found they really needed cooler temps than I could easily provide here in texas. They seemed a pretty tough and greedy little frog otherwise though. Stunning colors as well of course. I don't really suspect new breeding tactics are likely to be needed with this species, the same basic tactics that usually work on toads and other explosive breeders will induce amplexus and while I never got eggs I only had a small group and didn't fiddle with them for more than a year or so due to the problems with heat. Best of luck with them.

I know to keep them cool and as for the other needs I know them as well, Remember Im a Dart Frogger, we do our research! And new breeding and husbandry techniques are due as they have not been successfully captive bred here and what I have in the works in a group effort project on them and will be for the others to come. Im personally starting with twenty of them in a custom 8'x4'x24 inch viv with a few new advancments. Nice slow moving current and flood setup. I will be sharing it in time/

Michael

[SethD]

Like Tony said, who are the most respected in our hobby? Its not the pacman crowd or the the ones who are mixing species or supporting it. Its us because we do the work. You are looking at this the wrong way. We are not trying to rule the hobby, We are trying to help it advance for all of us. We do the research, we do the bulk of the testing and advance the husbandry for captive breeding. We only want to help the other amphibians in the same way.

I get it, it's not that your trying to "rule" the rest of the hobby, it is just that the rest of the hobby is so stupid and unlearned that your doing this all for our good. We should be so ashamed for disagreeing with the the brilliant, hard working dart froggers who have come to giude us out of darkness into enlightenment. Forgive us.

And another stupid thing I hear is none of the frogs here will be used for reintroduction. Do you know why? Because more of you than not dont practice proper captive breeding practices in order to even pull it off. Do you think that the zoos and institutions can honestly cover the needs for an repopulation project? They cant and we will not ever be considered for doing our part if the hobby is divided on the simple issues. Simply put if and when there is ever a plan to start reintroducing species you will not have a clue in hell as to what it takes as you guys dont know **** about locales, line info and other little things like quarentine, testing and even how to keep your offspring and breeders tracked in order to continue unrelated lines for the benefit of their future. Do you know anything about acclimating frogs in the wild before they are released? How about setting up a proper diet and a variety that only dart froggers seem to practice? If you did know would you practice it as many of these species are on the verge of and will disapear from the wild in time. Without the help of a dedicated hobby the reintroduction projects will fail and wont be able to produce what we can. It seems to me you guys need more Dart Froggers on the boards helping to share knowledge that will better the hobby.

I hate to break it to you but the dart frog hobbys frogs are not going to be used for reintroductions either unless "maybe" and this is a big maybe, the species in question is totally extict in the wild. It is a dream, but a highly unrealistic one.

If you have been a paet of the herp hobby for as long as I have youve seen the changes and you know where its going wrong.

I have been following the hobby since the early 90's. It has changed sure, going wrong tends to be a matter of perspective. If your talking about high priced morphs and such, eventually it will balance out, it always does.

I know to keep them cool and as for the other needs I know them as well, Remember Im a Dart Frogger, we do our research! And new breeding and husbandry techniques are due as they have not been successfully captive bred here and what I have in the works in a group effort project on them and will be for the others to come. Im personally starting with twenty of them in a custom 8'x4'x24 inch viv with a few new advancments. Nice slow moving current and flood setup. I will be sharing it in time/

Michael

You know the attitude and level of arrogance you and a lot of dart froggers like you have almost makes me hope your project flops. However I would like to see more such species established so I wish you success even though success would most likely just add another level of silly arrogance to your attitude.

[Tony]

You know the attitude and level of arrogance you and a lot of dart froggers like you have almost makes me hope your project flops.

For someone who is a regular on Dendroboard you sure have a lot of hate toward dart froggers...

[SethD]

For someone who is a regular on Dendroboard you sure have a lot of hate toward dart froggers...

I am only a semi-regular on dendroboard and since I personally pretty much got out of darts a number of years ago I go there mostly for what talk there is on other portions of the hobby as well as to talk to a few friends. I was on dendroboard for a bit when it first started several years ago, got tired of it and left, then came back this spring when the melanophryniscus started coming in and there was a lot of interest expressed in that over there. Otherwise my visits have been fairly sporadic over the years. Further I don't really have "a lot of hate towards dart froggers" I have friends in that community and there are still reasonable people over there. I don't have anything against dart froggers except what so many of them have become these days. Things change and while years ago most people in the dart frogger community were friendly and helpful now a large portion of them are arrogant, nasty, and think their collections and hobby are somehow going to "save the frogs" while also thinking anyone who disagrees with their point of view is an idiot. When I find a dart frogger that doesn't fit that increasingly common mold I have no problem with them at all and we usually get along fine.

[Kurt]

Remember Im a Dart Frogger, we do our research!

You seem to be insinuating that only the dart froggers do research, I can assure you that is not the case. I don't consider myself a dart frogger, even though I have some. I am a frogger. I look at the big picture and not just a small part, and I do my research, as do a lot of other non-dart froggers. There are plenty of non-dart froggers that I highly respect, more so than some of the dart froggers I know. A lot of the dart froggers I know are only interested in darts and there is nothing wrong with it, other than its a limited viewpoint. The order Anura is so much bigger than one family of frogs from the Neotropics.

That being said, I am 100% in agreement about hybrids and man-made-morphs. Couldn't agree more.

[JimO]

Wow! This is like watching a UFC match. I'm a peacemaker by nature, but I'm kinda hesitant to jump in and give any opinions, lest I get smacked upside the head from both directions. I don't want to be the ref who gets knocked out cold trying to break up a clinch and I'm too old to lose any more teeth.

I dare say that not all dart froggers are arrogant and not all casual froggers live in run-down trailer parks. The broad generalizations, while inducing pretty funny images, aren't doing much to keep this respectful.

I'm waiting for someone to suddenly stop, hear the sound of angels, see a lightbulb pop above their head, and say something like, "You know, you are absolutely right. I didn't realize how wrong I've been all these years." Uhhh, I guess not.

(bell rings) Ok gentlemen, let's fight!

[Tony]

I dare say that not all dart froggers are arrogant and not all casual froggers live in run-down trailer parks. The broad generalizations, while inducing pretty funny images, aren't doing much to keep this respectful.

My trailer park comment was directed solely toward my favorite short man, not all casual frog owners. He has thoroughly earned my lack of respect.

[EpicFrogMan]

My trailer park comment was directed solely toward my favorite short man, not all casual frog owners. He has thoroughly earned my lack of respect.

Like i care about some random kid from Oregons respect. There are not many trailer parks in southern california by the way. Thats something you would find in Oregon along with meth labs where you're from.

Also im 5'11. That is average. Not quite Napolean.

Someone post some hybrid frog pictures just to get these guys panties more in a bunch,

[SethD]

Like i care about some random kid from Oregons respect. There are not many trailer parks in southern california by the way. Thats something you would find in Oregon along with meth labs where you're from.

Also im 5'11. That is average. Not quite Napolean.

Someone post some hybrid frog pictures just to get these guys panties more in a bunch,

Kurt is right about one thing you know, the best way to "win" an argument is not to insult people, the best way to "win" is to relax, laugh, and shrug it off when they attack you. That either has the effect of toning things down and enabling a reasonable conversation or making them look silly and unreasonable when they continue the insults for no good reason. Either way you win.

[Kurt]

I'm waiting for someone to suddenly stop, hear the sound of angels, see a lightbulb pop above their head, and say something like, "You know, you are absolutely right. I didn't realize how wrong I've been all these years." Uhhh, I guess not.

Wow Jim you are really delusional.

[JimO]

Hey! I resemble that remark.

Wow Jim you are really delusional.

[SethD]

I dare say that not all dart froggers are arrogant

I agree and have said as much.