Hello from Atlanta GA

[Tony]

Tony weren't you the one who purchased the imported red eyes with white eyes just a month ago? You can't tell me you didn't buy them simply because they looked cool and different.

That is precisely why, it was a cool and different NATURAL variation.

And when you breed them you'll be charging more for the ones that have the white eyes. Just because a hobbiest didn't make those white eyes doesn't make it different. You'll still be breeding for a variation of the normal Red Eye. And didn't we just say that the original colors were best.

It is very different, being a natural occurrence and not a forced pairing like if I were to breed him to an A. annae or A. moreletii.

Also, if we want to get into another ethical arguement. Why would you find it ethical to purchase wild caught red eyes when they are so abundantly available as captive bred? Aren't you encouraging the frog trafficers to keep taking frogs from the wild no matter how many die before they are ever sold to the public?

I prefer to start with wild caught stock whenever possible to ensure a genetically diverse founding population instead of inbreeding frogger X's frogs who probably brought inbred frogs from frogger Y who bought inbred frogs from frogger Z and so on. Red eyes are a species of least concern on the IUCN redlist, imports are not hurting their wild populations.

[bshmerlie]

I prefer to start with wild caught stock whenever possible to ensure a genetically diverse founding population instead of inbreeding frogger X's frogs who probably brought inbred frogs from frogger Y who bought inbred frogs from frogger Z and so on. Red eyes are a species of least concern on the IUCN redlist, imports are not hurting their wild populations.

I'm sorry but when it comes to red eyes that's a cop out , because there are already so many of them already out there. What Brian and Understory are doing with the glass frogs I understand that. But taking frogs from the wild when they are so prevalent here is shameful and shouldn't be encouraged. They're not on the endangered list until they are. They shouldn't be allowed to import any frog species that is already so common in our hobby. As a community we should be breeding what we have to keep up with the demand. Not taking them from the wild. We slaughtered the Buffalo almost to extinction, we slaughtered sea otters to the brink, we over fish our oceans at what point do we learn? We know how to breed them stop taking them from the wild.

[Tony]

I'm sorry but when it comes to red eyes that's a cop out , because there are already so many of them already out there. What Brian and Understory are doing with the glass frogs I understand that. But taking frogs from the wild when they are so prevalent here is shameful and shouldn't be encouraged. They're not on the endangered list until they are. They shouldn't be allowed to import any frog species that is already so common in our hobby. As a community we should be breeding what we have to keep up with the demand. Not taking them from the wild. We slaughtered the Buffalo almost to extinction, we slaughtered sea otters to the brink, we over fish our oceans at what point do we learn? We know how to breed them stop taking them from the wild.

Find me a red eye breeder who knows the lineage of their breeding stock and manages them appropriately and I will happily buy from them. To the best of my knowledge I am the only person attempting such a thing.

[bshmerlie]

Find me a red eye breeder who knows the lineage of their breeding stock and manages them appropriately and I will happily buy from them. To the best of my knowledge I am the only person attempting such a thing.

Has there been some issues with deformities from inbred read eyes that I haven't heard about or is that just another excuse to buy a cool looking imported morph?

[poison beauties]

Has there been some issues with deformities from inbred read eyes that I haven't heard about or is that just another excuse to buy a cool looking imported morph?

All red eyes are imported and there is nothing wrong with opening up the genetic diversity. If you dont know where your frogs track back to how do you know if the are related or not? Seems to me grabbing up fresh Legally imported lines in the way to go.

Michael

[Tony]

Has there been some issues with deformities from inbred read eyes that I haven't heard about or is that just another excuse to buy a cool looking imported morph?

Why risk such a thing happening when I can start with fresh stock? I have a number of imported wild type red eyes, if I was not concerned with proper genetic management I would have bought wholesale CB froglets for a third of the price and skipped the trouble of having to acclimate them.