A Few Neighborhood Discoveries

[thejolta]

Hi this is my first post on here. Basically anytime I tried to look up info on how to care for my Bufo Americanus (which I found about a week ago while walking through the neighborhood) I was directed here by google. Thankfully Little Winston L.S. Churchill haas really been thriving in his cage and just demolishing ridiculous amounts of insects . I've only seen him lose his appetite maybe twice. Anyways he's really been doing well and he's pretty easy to take care of. Not a picky eater at all. I suspect he might be a dwarf toad though as he only has 1 wart per spot on his back. When I first got him I though he was a baby American toad, but we shall see.

Anyways tonight I was out catching moths and bugs outside my front door by the front door lights (1 on each side of the door) for Winston. I caught quite a few bugs and dropped them in the cage and he went at it and all. So I head back out to do another round of bug catching and I point my flashlight just above the outdoor light on the left and what do I see hanging on the wall waiting for bugs to fly out? A tiny Gray Tree Frog So I'm pretty surprised right now because I've never seen any frogs in our yard and there's one sitting on the brick outside my front door. So I brought (her i think) in and she was pretty timid and small and I set her in the terrarium with Winston. At first it looked like she'd lost her appetite but eventually a moth was showing off in front of her and she sniped it down.

Then, Winston and Ms. GTF eat most of the bugs (Winston definitely had the majority), so I decide to make another trip out to catch some more moths for them. I'm pointing the flashlight around the lights looking for moths and what do I see on the outdoor light to the right of the door? Another gray tree frog . This guy was a big one and at first I was like oh jeez I might have to leave it at two frogs (winston and ms gtf), but later convinced myself that these two GTF's were probably soulmates lol. So fast forward to about 2am and these GTF's are freaking jumping around all over the place, while winston is just trying to stay out of their way and remaining relatively calm. These GTFs seriously won't stop jumping around and they knocked over winston's little shelter thing.

So from what I've read an american toad and a GTF will not work in the same terrarium. Can someone explain to me why?

I'm not sure what my plan is right now, but tomorrow I'm planning a trip to the pet store for food and will probably be picking up some branches so that these GTF's will settle down. Also should I get 2 more hiding places for the GTFs like the one I have for winston? Or do they just need some plant cover over branches?

I'm planning on either getting or making a bigger water bowl and trying to give them each a little area to their own. I will also probably pick up some coconut fiber substrate as right now I have a lizard bark substrate and from what I've read that's not kosher with the tree frogs.

By the way Winston (American Toad) was found about a week ago and has adjusted nicely. I think he might be a dwarf american toad and I'm almost certain he's a female (haha sorry bad habit). As for the other two GTF's the first one I found is the smallest of the three frogs and is female (light coloration under her mouth) while the other GTF is the biggest of the bunch and is a male (black coloration under his mouth. The last guy is pretty big for the three. All three are within a relatively similar size range and there's no way any of them would be able to eat one another. None have shown any bullying towards one another so far. The only thing I've noticed is the two GTF's like to follow each other and stick together. Makes me feel bad for Winston, but then I remember he was always a recluse.

I'll be updating this thread throughout the week as I decide how I'll be creating these guys's arrangements. Thanks for all the help. Let me know if there's anything I need to be immediately or eventually concerned about.

Nick

[into]

I would be concerned with keeping the toad with the tree frogs. Toads have a toxin that could dangerous to them. There's a rule among pet frog owners that you never mix different types of frogs. (I'm still new so, waiting for someone with more experience to chime in)

What size habitat are they all in?

[Jace]

I agree with Chris. Besides the toxins, both species have different requirements and habitats. In the long run, one or the other is not going to have its needs met and then you will have some very unhappy amphibians. I'm actually kind of surprised your toad hasn't tried to eat you tree frogs. I would seperate the two species and sooner rather than later.

[John]

Welcome to the forum. Jo-Anna hit the nail on the head - the number one reason not to keep toads with treefrogs is that the toads will eat the treefrogs. Must bufonids will eat anything that will fit in their mouths, which includes treefrogs.

Regarding the hides, treefrogs will rarely hide on the ground - you need to provide perches and cover higher up for them.

It's unlikely that your toad is the dwarf subspecies (Bufo americanus charlesmithi) - at best they occur on the southern edge of your state.

[thejolta]

So I finally took everyone's advice and let Winston the toad go. I decided I couldn't handle the responsibility of two species in two separate tanks with my busy schedule. I let Winston go in the woods where I found him and am crossing my fingers that he doesn't bring any sort of germs to the toad population (I'm sorry I won't do it again).

Anyways the little girl tree frog (who I've finally come up with a name for: Artemis -- named after artemis from It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia) has really grown over the last 3 weeks. She used to be 1/2 the male GTF's size but when I came back from vacation they're almost impossible to tell apart. It's no surprise to me though as she's always been the most active one jumping around and eating all the moths the second I dropped my night's catch into the tank.

I'm working on building up there habitat and am going to have do most of it myself. So if anyone has any suggestions for diy perches and hides for tree frogs I'm all ears.

Also, the male (who I haven't named yet) has started calling more and more at night. I love it (at least I do at the moment since he hasn't woken me up yet). He always gets his throat all puffy and makes these short efforts at calling (almost like a puppy trying to sound tough lol). Anyways I downloaded an mp3 of their call that I play to inspire him to call, but it doesn't seem to work. Is there anything that you guys do that seems to induce calling for your frogs?

[into]

I don't have grey tree frogs, but Music and the sound of water gets both of my green tree frogs going... especially the Six Flags song "We Like to Party" and the Gummi Bear song on YouTube. Also when dumper (WTF) calls, they respond to him, but he doesn't respond back to them, he just likes to talk to himself.

It's crazy how they sound like little dogs. I always refer them as "barking" but the other night one of them was doing that beepy "quacking" sound that I've heard on all the audio clips on the internet. The two calls must have different meanings.

[thejolta]

Lol he doesn't really sound like a little dog. I was just describing it like that because when he chirps it reminds me of a puppy trying to bark like a big dog because it's only short and not really powerful. Thanks for the reply though and I love your pictures on here.

[JeffX]

I have those Tree Frogs all over the place around here. Luckily for me I have night lights out front that attract all of the insects and then in turn attract all of the frogs. I of course have to see multiple bats flying around too.

[Mattiez]

This weekend I was doing a bit of hiking and went to an animal rehabilitation center with a cute little nature center. They had a number of displays, and one of them was a single grey tree frog and a single american toad housed together. They both looked very happy and according to the naturalist have been together for awhile. They were of a very similar size. No way the toad could fit him in its mouth.

Now obviously the temp or humidity in the tank probably favored one species slightly over the other, but they were both local from that area (so at least to some degree have similar requirements, at least in terms of temp ). Realistically, many people I'm sure do mix species, and everybody appears happy. However, there are probably just as many instances if not more where they are unhappy and somebody gets eaten. To me, what it comes down to is if it is worth the risk, and to me, anything that results in a frog or toad dying is not worth the risk.