Suspected Impaction

[jtay]

After a blowfly feast last week little frog (L. aurea) has been spending far too much time in the water, every morning for a good 4 - 5 hours, and all day today. I suspect she may have an impaction or difficulties as blowflies have somewhat of a hard exoskeleton, and I know young frogs have trouble digesting them (she is not that young though).
I believe she has passed some as after her long baths there are flecks of shinny blowfly exoskeleton in the water.
She is still active and alert, humidity in tank is fine, and her sister is acting fine and normal.
I am wondering about this 'warm water bath' I have seen mentioned. Can someone outline the details or me - temp, duration, how often, etc..., and some other remedies for impaction?
Thanks

[Jace]

Hi, Jess. I hope your little frog is doing okay. I can't pass on any advice on impaction, unfortunately...or maybe it's fortunate that I haven't experienced it. Either way, I have tried the warm baths for other reasons and if nothing else, the frog seems to enjoy it. It's hard to describe the temp of the water-definitely not bath water or dishes warm, but above cool. If that makes any sense. I left my frog sit in it for 15 minutes and topped it up as necessary. Hope everything works out for her.

[Ebony]

Hi Jess..Unfortunately I have no experience with impaction also..I do think its a good sign that she has passed some numbers two's already. Im sure someone here will be able to give you advise. I hope she will be OK.

[jtay]

Thanks Jo-Anna and Ebony.
She just did a small but entire poo in the water, perhaps not an impaction? I'm not sure, maybe she will feel better now...
I will try the warm water bath tomorrow.

[Paul Rust]

Jess,
Spending lots of time with it's bum in the water can be a sign of parasites as well. Just a thought. Hope it turns out well.

[charlamanda]

I've had 2 similar situations and both are about my Gray Tree froglets. Sit #1: 5 of the 10 larger froglets where eating so many small/medium crickets, I decided to buy some adult crickets, we actually enjoy their chirping it always sounds like summer. The adults, other than really skeeving me, seemed so large, but without hesitation they gobbled them up. Then I noticed that those 5 were sitting in the water when previously I never saw them there. I watched a few, off and on, for hours and even witnessed some hiccupping. It was my same thought that perhaps the adults exoskeletons where too hard for their digestive tracts, since they are still only a about 3 months old and less than 2". I have seen them poop, but you can definitely see the resemblance to the crickets in their #2's, especially the ovipositors.
****Even though they don't seem to be having any serious problems with the adult crickets I am a bit concerned they may not be getting all the nutritious benefits from them apposed to the smaller/younger crickets when digesting.
***But I would think that the adult crickets provide more calcium in their exoskeletons, if the froglets can digested them.
Situ #2: I have 3 very small froglets I keep in a separate 10 gal tank. They are the same age as the other 10, but are small enough to fit on the tips of my fingers. These 3 are Baby, Hoppy and Shadoobie (who needs a new name). I took them in because they were 1. very small (Shadoobie) and Baby was so severely emaciated 2. Hoppy had a deformed leg and was also very small. They are all doing well, except for Shadoobie who is not as robust as the other 2, but still at a healthy size/weight. When I moved them into the 10 gal I noticed they would sit in their swimming pool...a lot. I didn't have one in the old tank because the friut flies, I kept in there all the time, would stampeed directly to it and drown, so I kept it nice and humid. Now they are spending hours in there and return frequently. I am wondering if the reason for their slow growth and previous emaciation was due to parasites and is the reason for them frequenting the pool. It could also be the difference in humidity, but it doesn't explain the growth issue.
***At their current size would it be too much of a risk or strain to their little bodies for deworming?
and
***What would be the best dewormer and dose for their size? I know I've gotten this info before, but there has been a lot of conflicting advice and I can't figure out the dose for these frogs, since they are soooooo small!
Thanks for the help.

[JeffX]

I've only had to deal with impaction a few times and warm bathes have always worked for me.

[jtay]

Jess,
Spending lots of time with it's bum in the water can be a sign of parasites as well. Just a thought. Hope it turns out well.

Hi Paul, yeah I have considered that. I should do a fecal to check.

[Paul Rust]

***At their current size would it be too much of a risk or strain to their little bodies for deworming?
and
***What would be the best dewormer and dose for their size? Thanks for the help.

***Parasites doesn't necesarily mean worms. You can do a fecal exam for the entire enclosure by collecting as many droppings as you can from the same group. If one has parasites, the rest likely do too. If the exam shows an infestation of worms I would simply dust with Panacur because it is very safe. If it shows anything else I would let a vet recommend medication and dosage.

[jtay]

I've only had to deal with impaction a few times and warm bathes have always worked for me.

That's good to hear

[charlamanda]

***Parasites doesn't necesarily mean worms. You can do a fecal exam for the entire enclosure by collecting as many droppings as you can from the same group. If one has parasites, the rest likely do too. If the exam shows an infestation of worms I would simply dust with Panacur because it is very safe. If it shows anything else I would let a vet recommend medication and dosage.

Thanks for clarifying that. I've been associating the two as one. I'm still learning.
***Do you bring the droppings to the vet or can I send them directly to a lab?
***Do I dust just the frogs or their enclosure and food too?
It's times like these I wish I bought a microscope instead of a telescope, probably cost the same!LOL All my training in microbiology, etc. would finally come in handy. When I was really little, 4, 5 and or 6, I wanted a microscope, telescope and archeology kit! Tall order for that age! 1 down 2 to go!LOL

[Paul Rust]

Thanks for clarifying that. I've been associating the two as one. I'm still learning.
***Do you bring the droppings to the vet or can I send them directly to a lab?
***Do I dust just the frogs or their enclosure and food too?
It's times like these I wish I bought a microscope instead of a telescope, probably cost the same!LOL All my training in microbiology, etc. would finally come in handy. When I was really little, 4, 5 and or 6, I wanted a microscope, telescope and archeology kit! Tall order for that age! 1 down 2 to go!LOL

Call the vet and tell them you need a fecal exam on your frogs and they will likely give you a kit and instructions. If you are feeling adventurous do it yourself, it isn't exactly difficult.
http://www.frogforum.net/care-articl...cal-exams.html

You dust the food with the Panacur when you feed them. Here is some more information on this.
http://www.frogforum.net/care-articl...first-aid.html

Feel free to PM me if you have any questions.

[charlamanda]

Jess, How is your little frog doing now? Did you notice if your frog had the hiccups?(just curious if there is a connection)
Paul, one more question.
If I do happen to check it myself*****How many are considered a infestation? Is there a website or book that shows or explains this stuff I can order or look at?
I tend not to trust vets! (1.) many don't have enough experience with exotic animals. A vet gave my 9 year old rabbit, Thumper, PCN and the first and only dose killed her and (2.) The vet around here gave my 16 year old dog Prozac for depression and he began having seizures all the time. The vet insisted there were no connections between the meds and his seizures, I seriously doubted him since he had never had one before, so I checked the drug in my PDR and in red the side effects were seizures!!! I took him off it and he hasn't had any since. I have a few other reasons, but I am sure nobody gives a rats ***, so let's leave it at this!!LOL
Being in the medical field for 22 years you start to distrust Dr's in every capacity.
*******My best advice to everyone is to learn what you can and be your own advocate. It can and will save yours and your families lives as well your pets. Trust me on this one, they make more mistakes than you know!!!

[charlamanda]

Call the vet and tell them you need a fecal exam on your frogs and they will likely give you a kit and instructions. If you are feeling adventurous do it yourself, it isn't exactly difficult.
http://www.frogforum.net/care-articl...cal-exams.html

You dust the food with the Panacur when you feed them. Here is some more information on this.
http://www.frogforum.net/care-articl...first-aid.html

Feel free to PM me if you have any questions.

Thank you sssssssssssooooooo much! I posted another question, but I beleive this info will answer that too. Thanks again.

[Paul Rust]

Thank you sssssssssssooooooo much! I posted another question, but I beleive this info will answer that too. Thanks again.

You're welcome Charla.
Every instruction guide I write is from my own experience and procedures in my own lab, and then verified by my collegues in the Cancer Research Center and other labs as well, thanks to Jess . Like you said, the best thing to do is learn all you can on your own.

[jtay]

Jess, How is your little frog doing now? Did you notice if your frog had the hiccups?(just curious if there is a connection)

Hi Charlamanda, she appears to be back to normal - no more hanging out in the water and is back in her sleeping spot on the wall. I'll continue to keep an eye on her though.
I did not notice any hiccups, only change in her was the amount of time she was spending in the water.

[Ebony]

Im pleased to hear that Jess. That's great.