Introducing Caatanga X Ornata

[Tony]

this guy thinks he know more than the leaders of the Horned Frog movement, why are you even responding to him.

Don't worry, I'm done with you. Enjoy your frankenfrog.

[EpicFrogMan]

Don't worry, I'm done with you. Enjoy your frankenfrog.

thanks enjoy your little weak tree frogs. Send them over so my guy can eat them sometime.

[Tony]

thanks enjoy your little weak tree frogs. Send them over so my guy can eat them sometime.

Overcompensating with big frogs huh? What a manly man you are, drive a lifted truck too?

[EpicFrogMan]

you obviously know nothing about Horned Frogs, so please go back to your little dart frog section.

[Eel Noob]

Nice colors. Keep us updated.

[bshmerlie]

Overcompensating with big frogs huh? What a manly man you are, drive a lifted truck too?

Tony, Epic Frog Man, comments about one's frog size although amusing are probably not some of the more productive comments one could make. We all could use a little lowering of the testasterone right about now. Like in politics there are always going to be differing opinions in our hobby when it comes to breeding like this. But we must at last be respectful of those opinions or we will simply close down lines of communication when it comes to really thought provoking and engaging issues such as this one. Anyone who's visited various frog forums I'm sure has seen this on Dendroboard and knows what I'm talking about. I don't post over there very often not because I don't feel confidant in what I'm saying but because I may not feel like getting into a pissing contest over an opinion. Tony does have a vast knowledge of breeding various species and his opinions should be respected. Seth and Kevin on the opposing side of this argument are equally knowledgable and their opinions are just as deserving. Sometimes its okay to simply agree to disagree. But if you read back through this post a true downright argument really wasn't needed in this case. A better choose of words would have been more appropriate so that everyone feels open to share their opinions, not only on this topic but more importantly in the future. I would hate to see any animosity build up that would affect a members desire to post their opinions here.

[EpicFrogMan]

Tony, Epic Frog Man, comments about one's frog size although amusing are probably not some of the more productive comments one could make. We all could use a little lowering of the testasterone right about now. Like in politics there are always going to be differing opinions in our hobby when it comes to breeding like this. But we must at last be respectful of those opinions or we will simply close down lines of communication when it comes to really thought provoking and engaging issues such as this one. Anyone who's visited various frog forums I'm sure has seen this on Dendroboard and knows what I'm talking about. I don't post over there very often not because I don't feel confidant in what I'm saying but because I may not feel like getting into a pissing contest over an opinion. Tony does have a vast knowledge of breeding various species and his opinions should be respected. Seth and Kevin on the opposing side of this argument are equally knowledgable and their opinions are just as deserving. Sometimes its okay to simply agree to disagree. But if you read back through this post a true downright argument really wasn't needed in this case. A better choose of words would have been more appropriate so that everyone feels open to share their opinions, not only on this topic but more importantly in the future. I would hate to see any animosity build up that would affect a members desire to post their opinions here.

Sorry but this Tony guy is a joke, coming in my thread talking ish on something he doesnt even know about.

Hes acting like he knows more than the leaders of the Horned Frog community who actually write books and talk to scientists all over the world.

What have you done for horned frogs Tony? Thats right nothing. So stick to dart frogs

[Tony]

Sorry but this Tony guy is a joke, coming in my thread talking ish on something he doesnt even know about.

Hes acting like he knows more than the leaders of the Horned Frog community who actually write books and talk to scientists all over the world.

What have you done for horned frogs Tony? Thats right nothing. So stick to dart frogs

The "Horned frog community" is a joke, and you are an overcompensating, ignorant piece of trailer trash. Go back to the monster truck rally where you belong.

[EpicFrogMan]

The "Horned frog community" is a joke, and you are an overcompensating, ignorant piece of trailer trash. Go back to the monster truck rally where you belong.

Someone please ban this kid.

[Malachi]

The "Horned frog community" is a joke.

WOW, way to extend your scuffle to the entire "community" thats pretty uncalled for.

[Tony]

WOW, way to extend your scuffle to the entire "community" thats pretty uncalled for.

Any "community" who acquires a new species and immediately wastes it on hybrids instead of trying to establish it in captivity is a joke.

[John911]

The "Horned frog community" is a joke, and you are an overcompensating, ignorant piece of trailer trash. Go back to the monster truck rally where you belong.

Come on Tony. Some of us horned frog fans respect your point of view too. And I sold my monster truck years ago.

[John911]

Any "community" who acquires a new species and immediately wastes it on hybrids instead of trying to establish it in captivity is a joke.

I am not that extreme, I enjoy seeing hybrids, but I also would like to see them established first.

[noob]

wow really tony? dont you think that its gone a little to far? who cares that he made a hybrid its beautiful. he was just showing off his pride and joy

[Jeff Kennedy]

Good to know that I am a "joke"! Thanks Tony!! Ahhhhhhh.....I just love people.

[Kevin1]

The "Horned frog community" is a joke, and you are an overcompensating, ignorant piece of trailer trash. Go back to the monster truck rally where you belong.

You seem to be a very intelligent guy Tony. I respect your take on hybrids while I find it understandable and even agree to some extent, I take offense to what you said and feel it was uncalled for. I know Epicfrogman has been rude but like Malachi said, no need to extend it to all of us horned frog keepers. Also I don't see what's wasted about it. It's not like it immediately dies once it's been bred. I imagine it was just an experiment and trust that Phillipe and Kim know what they're doing with these 2 new species.

[John]

Folks, it's apparent this is a heated argument and there are passionate views on both sides. I would like it to stay civil please. I would rather not get drawn into the details of this conversation but I can see two somewhat simplistic views of the issue.

For what it's worth, I think we should not overly serenade Phillipe de Vosjoli, and we should not be incredibly anti-hybriziation. Phillipe had his own motivations for doing what he did. I do think the point has been rightly made that hybridization between horned frogs is a very inconsequential issue in the hobby due to the lack of fertility in hybrids, and the access people have to species that could produce potentially viable hybrids _and_ could come into the possession of someone capable of breeding them.

Ethically I am more of a "leave it the way nature intended it" kind of guy but given the lack of consequences for the species themselves (I speak in the case of horned frogs only), I see little harm, and likewise, I see little or no benefit to it.

A note on hormone breeding, I don't see the relevance to the conversation, but if you want to open up another thread to talk about that, I would be happy to give you my experienced opinion on the topic. Suffice it to say that I think the issue as stated already in the thread is being treated in a broad, sweeping fashion which would require qualification to not be faulty.

Lastly, let me remind you to please be civil to each other and keep things friendly - we don't have to agree.

[EpicFrogMan]

I know you guys have your opinions, but it amazes me to think you know more than leaders of the Horned Frog movement who actually talk to Herpetologists,Captive Breed,Write books. Your opinions mean nothing compared to people who are actually doing something.

[Tony]

A note on hormone breeding, I don't see the relevance to the conversation, but if you want to open up another thread to talk about that, I would be happy to give you my experienced opinion on the topic. Suffice it to say that I think the issue as stated already in the thread is being treated in a broad, sweeping fashion which would require qualification to not be faulty.

What I intended with that point is to illustrate the greed that these two breeders have shown. Creating hybrids with a rare species and flooding the markets with weak cranwelli that show a high mortality rate over their first few months are both abhorrent acts. There is nothing at all wrong with making a living breeding animals, but these two have crossed the line into pure greed.

[Tony]

I know you guys have your opinions, but it amazes me to think you know more than leaders of the Horned Frog movement who actually talk to Herpetologists,Captive Breed,Write books. Your opinions mean nothing compared to people who are actually doing something.

I am breeding, and I work with species far more valuable to conservation efforts than ridiculous hybrids.