Introducing Caatanga X Ornata

[EpicFrogMan]

Also got this little bad boy yesterday. They develop large heads. Enjoy

[SethD]

Ornata x anything makes a nice looking frog. It will be interesting to see what he looks like when he is bigger.

[Tony]

How did someone get legal C. joazeirensis and why are they being wasted on hybrid projects?

[EpicFrogMan]

Ya I'm sure you know more than who produced these...LOL

[Tony]

I know that they are from a very small area in Brazil, a country which does not allow any frog exports. Chances are you either got scammed or you have the illegal offspring of smuggled frogs.

[EpicFrogMan]

No need to explain

[SethD]

How did someone get legal C. joazeirensis and why are they being wasted on hybrid projects?

I imagine they had extra males. If you have extra males and can produce a sellable frog why not? As far as "someone" at this time as far as I am aware the newly available horned frog species are only coming from Philippe de Vosjoli and from Kim at the "frog ranch". Their breeding stock reportedly came in as CB animals legally exported from brazil. I tend to believe that and I suspect they have all the documentation for it as both of them have to much at stake to be caught with smuggled frogs.

[Tony]

If you have extra males and can produce a sellable frog why not?

For the same reason I don't pair up my "extra" A. annae with A. callidryas or produce designer hybrid dart frogs? Because I have a little more integrity than to produce something that could easily contaminate and permanently ruin our captive populations.

As far as "someone" at this time as far as I am aware the newly available horned frog species are only coming from Philippe de Vosjoli and from Kim at the "frog ranch". Their stock reportedly came from CB animals legally exported from brazil. I tend to believe that and I suspect they have all the documentation for it as both of them have to much at stake to be caught with smuggled frogs.

Let's hope that is true and that Brazil will continue to relax their export restrictions. I also hope future exports go to more ethical breeders.

[EpicFrogMan]

Do you really think you know more than the people who are the leaders of the horned frog hobby?

[SethD]

For the same reason I don't pair up my "extra" A. annae with A. callidryas or produce designer hybrid dart frogs? Because I have a little more integrity than to produce something that could easily contaminate and permanently ruin our captive populations.

Please... lol Don't drag "dart frog ethics" into other areas of the amphibian hobby. Dart frogs are a somewhat unique case in that there are many morphs of the same species in many cases and it could be difficult to tell if a hybrid is a hybrid or a new morph. That was the initial reasoning behind the dart frog hobby frowning on hybrids though it has moved beyond that practical reasoning now into something a bit more visceral I think.

In the case of Horned frogs dart frog reasoning does not really apply for the following reasons.

A: To date crosses of horned frog species have been infertile(or possibly a low level of fertility in some specimens though this has not been proven) due to different chromosome counts. For example Ornata is octoploid while cranwelli is not.

B: There is only a relatively small number of regular horned frog breeders. It is likely to stay that way. They all tend to be knowledgeable. They are unlikely to "accidentally" contaminate "pure" stock. This isn't the dart frog world where there are hundreds and hundreds of different breeders at all different levels of knowledge and experience.

Let's hope that is true and that Brazil will continue to relax their export restrictions.

I hope some more legal stuff comes out of brazil too.

I also hope future exports go to more ethical breeders.

Without those two breeders, and especially Philippe de Vosjoli, horned frogs most likely would not be available as CB in the hobby period. I understand a lot of comparatively newer people in the hobby might not know things like that but before you start calling out people as "unethical breeders" understand that dart frogs are not the beginning nor the end of the amphibian hobby and attitudes towards hybrids are not always the same as they are in the dart frog community for some of the reasons I mentioned. If you don't like them fine, nobody is going to make you buy them, but just because you don't like them doesn't mean someone that produces them is automatically an unethical breeder.

[John911]

That green is crazy. Cool frog. Wouldn't it probably be sterile like a fantasy frog?

[Kevin1]

That green is crazy. Cool frog. Wouldn't it probably be sterile like a fantasy frog?

Normally I would say that's true but in this case I'm not so sure. The caatinga horned frog and the ornate horned frog are two closely related species. So I'm gonna say a 50% 50% chance.

Congrats Epicfrogman. I seen Phillipe advertising these awhile back. I'm glad someone on the forums actually bought one. Your frog has some AWESOME green.
Please keep us updated on it's growth(pics).

[Malachi]

Nice looking frog! Think it will keep bright green?

[EpicFrogMan]

this guy thinks he know more than the leaders of the Horned Frog movement, why are you even responding to him.

Thanks Kevin for the proper info by the way.

[Tony]

this guy thinks he know more than the leaders of the Horned Frog movement, why are you even responding to him.

Don't worry, I'm done with you. Enjoy your frankenfrog.

[Eel Noob]

Nice colors. Keep us updated.

[John911]

The "Horned frog community" is a joke, and you are an overcompensating, ignorant piece of trailer trash. Go back to the monster truck rally where you belong.

Come on Tony. Some of us horned frog fans respect your point of view too. And I sold my monster truck years ago.

[John911]

Any "community" who acquires a new species and immediately wastes it on hybrids instead of trying to establish it in captivity is a joke.

I am not that extreme, I enjoy seeing hybrids, but I also would like to see them established first.

[noob]

wow really tony? dont you think that its gone a little to far? who cares that he made a hybrid its beautiful. he was just showing off his pride and joy

[Jeff Kennedy]

Good to know that I am a "joke"! Thanks Tony!! Ahhhhhhh.....I just love people.