Poor housing

[spec]

I recently found a new petshop close to my house. When I got there I was looking around and couldn't find the frogs. So, I asked them where they were and behind some racks were their frogs. They had dart frogs in what appeared to be a decent enclosure some wood pieces with leafy stuff to climb on water and a substrate. Had a Dumpy frog I think is what is was called, his enclosure looked decent. After that, I saw the pacmans. One large albino one, about 4'' in dia. and in what looked like a small cricket keeper an ornate beautifull dark/brite green color (if that makes sense) with an very large yellow throat. They had this in only water up to the bottom of their mouths. I got kind of irritated after I broght it up and they told me it's how they always keep them because they've been drying out and besides it's how they digest their food. From my understanding , being in water only (reverse osmosis is what they said they use) can make them sick. Is there anything I can do to make them correct this or should I just leave it alone?

[gtr319]

Spec, I understood your concern... the recent green pacman that I got is in the similar living condition when I see him (and the pet store owner said to have over 29 years of reptile experience). Of course to us frog lovers there is something seriously wrong, but to the irresponsible owners, the frog comes and goes... since it is an short term thing, they won't bother to make the housing more appropriate. Yes, you have the right to tell them that it is very wrong, but I doubt they will change because the frog is just an merchandise to them, as long as they do not die, its another deal done.

And in the pet forums over in Hong Kong, I see people putting them in large critter keeper with only water and the sponge to act as the frog's "land". I can't say they are wrong because their frog is still alive, but only thing I can do is tell them what I have and give them prove that I follow this because someone it is recommended by the people who know reptiles.

[SethD]

I recently found a new petshop close to my house. When I got there I was looking around and couldn't find the frogs. So, I asked them where they were and behind some racks were their frogs. They had dart frogs in what appeared to be a decent enclosure some wood pieces with leafy stuff to climb on water and a substrate. Had a Dumpy frog I think is what is was called, his enclosure looked decent. After that, I saw the pacmans. One large albino one, about 4'' in dia. and in what looked like a small cricket keeper an ornate beautifull dark/brite green color (if that makes sense) with an very large yellow throat. They had this in only water up to the bottom of their mouths. I got kind of irritated after I broght it up and they told me it's how they always keep them because they've been drying out and besides it's how they digest their food. From my understanding , being in water only (reverse osmosis is what they said they use) can make them sick. Is there anything I can do to make them correct this or should I just leave it alone?

In the relative short term it is unlikely to cause a problem. Lots of horned frogs have been kept that way over the years and if the water is kept clean they will do fine for quite a long while.

[Kevin1]

They may run into problems keeping their osmotic balance right. Kind of like putting a freshwater fish in saltwater and vice versa.
Also these frogs love dirt, it's part of their lively hood. In nature these frogs burrow into soil and leaf litter with only their eyes protruding waiting for prey to come by. I prefer to keep animals as natural as possible since captive life is horrifically unnatural as it is.

[spec]

They may run into problems keeping their osmotic balance right. Kind of like putting a freshwater fish in saltwater and vice versa.
Also these frogs love dirt, it's part of their lively hood. In nature these frogs burrow into soil and leaf litter with only their eyes protruding waiting for prey to come by. I prefer to keep animals as natural as possible since captive life is horrifically unnatural as it is.

This is kind of how I look at it, even if they don't get sick it may give the frog a shy or mean behavior.As seth said "Lots of horned frogs have been kept that way over the years and if the water is kept clean they will do fine for quite a long while." Could that be contributing to the ill temperment and reputation alot of these horned frogs get, from not housing them as a pet but, more like a comodity.There wasn't anything else in there with them at all. Seem to be a bit unusual and mean in my book. I've got two pacmans and they've got plenty of water to be in if they want, I never see them in water much, see what i mean below....all i know is I love pets and animals and it doesn't matter if your getting one to be a pet or getting one to sell as a pet; you should be responsible for them 100%. I'd prefer to buy and own a pet who was taken care of properly and not stacked on the shelf like a can of beans...

[SethD]

This is kind of how I look at it, even if they don't get sick it may give the frog a shy or mean behavior.As seth said "Lots of horned frogs have been kept that way over the years and if the water is kept clean they will do fine for quite a long while." Could that be contributing to the ill temperment and reputation alot of these horned frogs get, from not housing them as a pet but, more like a comodity.There wasn't anything else in there with them at all. Seem to be a bit unusual and mean in my book. I've got two pacmans and they've got plenty of water to be in if they want, I never see them in water much, see what i mean below....all i know is I love pets and animals and it doesn't matter if your getting one to be a pet or getting one to sell as a pet; you should be responsible for them 100%. I'd prefer to buy and own a pet who was taken care of properly and not stacked on the shelf like a can of beans...

Well I would "prefer" a more naturalistic approach too, but no, the attitude comes with the species and is not related to how they are kept. Even wild ones are ornery. Their toughnesses and ability to do well in a simplistic setup with minimal care is a major contributor to their long standing popularity. The other major reason for their long standing popularity is the infatuation many people have with a frog that can consume a meal nearly as large as itself.

[spec]

Well I would "prefer" a more naturalistic approach too, but no, the attitude comes with the species and is not related to how they are kept. Even wild ones are ornery. Their toughnesses and ability to do well in a simplistic setup with minimal care is a major contributor to their long standing popularity. The other major reason for their long standing popularity is the infatuation many people have with a frog that can consume a meal nearly as large as itself.

I've still not seen any aggression with mine, I'll admit that the conditions they were kept in seemed a bit dry. They did have something to burrow in , water dish , and a place to hide. Whats the difference between keeping a pacman frog in an all water small environment where he cant hop, hide , burrow or even dry out a bit if he likes. Kind of like keeping a dog in a shoe box with holes in it, he's not going to be happy and i'd still get mad. There's got to be something I can do to help these little guys, maybe even start a standard for the environment of all phibs and reptiles are kept. The least they could do is go through the same ammount of effort as they do with the rest of the animals. Am I wrong?