Please Help! Results of Necropsy: Lungworms?!

[Herpvet]

Hi,

Sorry to chime in a little late, but a couple of comments in addition to those already made:

a) Certain lungworms burrow directly through the skin, and therefore CAN cause skin lesions - depends on the species of lungworm

b) Worm infestations won't show up on cultures (unless you're specifically culturing for the worms - might be theoretically possible, but certainly not routine as far as I'm aware) - you need to examine the faeces with a microscope

c) In my experience panacur is pretty ineffective against lungworms

d) I would advise going to the vet for wormer. If treating with a wormer in a potentially heavily infested amphib, it is usually worth giving concurrent antibiotic cover and anti-inflammatory drugs. If there's a lot of lungowrms, for example, them all spasming and dying from the wormer inside the lungs can cause a lot of damage, and predispose to bacterial or fungal pneumionia.

Hope this helps,

Bruce.

Hello guys.

So, I've gotten the results of the necropsy for Igby :sad: She died due to nodular pneumonia caused by lungworms. I'm a little surprised given that we did fecal cultures on both Igby and Kibbits! Wouldn't the worms have passed through and shown up in the culture? We definitely treated both Igby and Kibbits for all parasites that tested positive. Do you think it was just too late!?

Obviously, I'm very scared at this point from what I'm reading. Any advice on the following questions would be appreciated:

1. We kept little Quibble completely quarantined in a separate tank, on paper towels, and washed the tank each night with boiling water. We changed our gloves every time we handled each frog (so no cross-contamination there). We even had separate crickets for Quibble vs. Igby. Given how quickly these lungworms breed, do you think that he is okay?

2. Could Igby/Kibbits have only gotten this while living at the petstore, prior to us bringing them home OR can a captive environment be contaminated with parasites through other means, i.e. a new bag of substrate, crickets bought from the store, tap water?! We just want to make sure we are doing everything we can to protect our new frogs (other than NOT buying from the petstore and getting them from reputable breeders where we know they were captive bred!)

3. Before moving our new frogs (Ori and Boris) into their own quarantine tank (the main tank that Igby/Kibbits lived in prior to getting sick), we soaked everything in a 10% bleach solution and then rinsed multiple times with boiling water, baked the wood, etc. Would all that cleaning be enough to kill lungworms that might have been living in a tank, or could Ori/Boris now be exposed?


Any advice would be extremely helpful!! Has anyone dealt with this before? Why would lungworms cause spots on the skin? Why wouldn't this show up in cultures!?

We just don't want to lose anymore frogs : (

[Paul Rust]

Hi,

c) In my experience panacur is pretty ineffective against lungworms.

This is good to know Bruce, thanks.

[charlamanda]

[QUOTE=Herpvet;37420]Hi,

I would advise going to the vet for wormer. If treating with a wormer in a potentially heavily infested amphib, it is usually worth giving concurrent antibiotic cover and anti-inflammatory drugs. If there's a lot of lungowrms, for example, them all spasming and dying from the wormer inside the lungs can cause a lot of damage, and predispose to bacterial or fungal pneumionia.
Hi Bruce,
I have heard this or most likely read it too, even in other animals and humans, and a very good point!
Seems to be very common in live stock: sheep, cows, goats and rampant in rats!
If you think of it something dead or dying in your lungs it will , I assume, 1. try to get out and if there are enough could suffocate the host, but 2.they also will decay in delicate lung tissue, which will cause scaring and decreased lung function!! I started reading my medical books and info online for help!
If there are enough in the blood stream it can cause septicemia as well!
Looking back I think it's probably better to treat all your frogs, mine too, prophylacticly, better than trying to get rid of them later, which seems not only very difficult, but very dangerous undertaking.

[charlamanda]

[QUOTE=Herpvet;37420]Hi,

Worm infestations won't show up on cultures (unless you're specifically culturing for the worms - might be theoretically possible, but certainly not routine as far as I'm aware) - you need to examine the faeces with a microscope

Hi Bruce again,
I have a quick question...What do they check for in fecal culture than if they are not looking for worms/parasites? or Do you specifically need to do an O & P rather than a fecal culture?

[charlamanda]

Just a side note.
I have to say that just reading through, almost all the threads, of different problems and having so many experts and peoples experience with their frogs is fantastically interesting and informative.
I myself don't have much experience with frogs specifically, but I do have 22 years of a medical background and even more with other pets, which occasionally relates and helps. It's nice to be able to contribute from time to time and what I don't know 100%, I am happy to look up and research.
Thanks to everyone, my fellow nerds and frog enthusiasts for your patients, understanding and vast knowledge. Kudos! What a wonderful site I stumbled upon!!

[SethD]

Hi,
a) Certain lungworms burrow directly through the skin, and therefore CAN cause skin lesions - depends on the species of lungworm

Perhaps, while I haven't seen that in frogs I can't rule it out completely, but if that were the case one would think that logically the lesions would tend to be primarily on the belly or ventral region instead of on the back and sides. I have seen quite a few sick frogs and most of the time lesions seem to be caused either by abrasions or by severe bacterial infections.