Frog in quarantine.

[Jace]

I had to remove Elton, my Green Treefrog, into a separate container. His colour has darkened to deep brown, and he has become lethargic. I placed him in a container with paper towel, one tree limb and two hanging plants. He has not moved from where he hopped off my hand and landed on a leaf. Physically, besides being thin, I cannot see anything physically wrong with him. Does anyone have any suggestions of what I can do/try to help him?

[wesleybrouwer]

If the temperature and humidity are the same as the enclosure he was in before,
i think best idea is to do a feces exam to check if anything can be found.

Since he don't eat it will be difficult to find fresh feces i think.
What you can do is,
let him soak in a bowl of handwarm water.
Most of the time frogs will give you some feces afterwards

I usually soak them for 5-10 minutes and put them on a paper towel.
Most of the times i'm lucky using this method.

If nothing shows up in the exam,
maybe you can try a treatment with elektrolyte.
I don't know if it is something you guys have over there ofcourse.
Some people use somewhat the same thing that is used on people with an infusion to get the blood values up.
Not realy sure how you call this solution.

Elektrolyte contains:
Ingredients: Calcium 0.25%,raw ash 13.70%, water 52.00%, 0.10% magnesium, sodium 5.40%, potassium 0.54%, 0.00% crude protein, crude fat 0.00%; raw fiber 0,00%

works well with me on animals with lost apetites and apathy.
I believe an American product is Nutribac, but not certain if it is the same thing i mean
Sorry i can't help you completely, since we got a little distance it could be that some things aren't readily available that i use, or i don't know of things more used over youre place

[Jace]

Thank you, Wesley. I have tried the lukewarm (treated) water, but so far nothing. I can't even say whether he has eaten or not recently, though compared to his tankmate, he is definitely skinnier. When I removed him from the main tank, he didn't try to get away, and he has been in the same position since barely hopping off my hand 8 hours ago. He is still breathing, but barely. I was going to put crickets in with him, but they might stress him out even more at this point. Regardless, it is not looking good... Thanks for your help, though-I really do appreciate it.

[wesleybrouwer]

Well, it's hard to tell from a distance.
You know you're frogs better then i do ofcourse.

WIth my tree frogs i know they don't have to wake-up each and every night,
sometimes they seem to sleep both day and night.
In my case they have eaten enough then.

What you can do to try and wake him up is spraying when the lighting goes out.
Increasing the humidity by spraying long enough will wake up most frogs,
even during the day when i do this i am able to wake them up,
the red eyes will even start feeding and calling when i do so.
Altough i avoid it outside my "raining season" since they are nocturnal afterall.
Waking them up during the day isn't exactly a great idea.

If this doesn't help and you are sure he is way to skinny,
i would call a vet to ask what can be used like the elekrolyze.
This will bring up their bloodvalues and provide them with an energy boost.
It;s about the same what people get in the hospital when dehydrated or unable to drink.

As soon as you can, try to (let) examine a swab and/or feces to check the reason behind this.
Maybe someone from the same region as you can help you find a specialized vet.

Good idea maybe to make a list around here with specialized vets troughout the US,
makes it a little easier finding one if you ask me.
But that is something for the moderators, they can make a sticky on that.
I won't be able to help you on that i think

[bshmerlie]

We do have a list of vets here in the US but Jo-Anna is from Canada.

[Jace]

I have a vet hospital that deals with small animals in my city, though whether they deal with frogs or not I have to find out. With it being a holiday weekend, there is nothing I will be able to do until Tuesday at the earliest.

Elton has moved, though. He obviously had a nice soak in his water dish and is now clinging to the side of his tank. I am going to add a few crickets to his enclosure tonight and see if I can watch him eat. I know Rongo (his tankmate) is eating and I am wondering if Rongo was bullying Elton when it came to the food. And I can't figure out why Rongo is a nice green now, and Elton is mud brown. I'm hoping it's a food/bullying thing because that I can correct immediately!

[charlamanda]

Thank you, Wesley. I have tried the lukewarm (treated) water, but so far nothing. I can't even say whether he has eaten or not recently, though compared to his tankmate, he is definitely skinnier. When I removed him from the main tank, he didn't try to get away, and he has been in the same position since barely hopping off my hand 8 hours ago. He is still breathing, but barely. I was going to put crickets in with him, but they might stress him out even more at this point. Regardless, it is not looking good... Thanks for your help, though-I really do appreciate it.

Jo-anna, I am so sorry to hear about Elton, he's the one of 2 you just got isn't he?
The solution that your referring to, Wesley, is known as Pedialyte in the US. They may sell one specifically for reptiles/amphibians too, but I am unfamiliar with that one. Pedialyte is a solution used for infants (hence the Pedia) when they are ill with a fever or diarrhea/stomach virus, etc and need to regain electrolytes and rehydration.
When I first brought Tiny and Baby inside they were extremely thin and small (see pic#1) and I used the water/pedialyte solution (I beleive it was IgbyKibbits who gave me the advice and mixture specifics) on them(I had a bath of the solution in the tank, but also would put drops on them with a needless syringe and would try to confine them to the bath when I could too) all the time because they were not eating and couldn't even stay awake to eat. I had Fflies available to them at all times in their tank, but I'd have to nudge them to wake them and within seconds they'd slump over and nod off again. I didn't expect either to make it and Tiny did die, but Baby is better than ever(pic#2- Baby,closer to vine, and Hoppy snuggled up to Baby, New BFF's, Feel the love?) and has even began eating crickets in the last 1 1/2 weeks. I don't beleive either were sick though, just starving do to a 1 1/2 week rain and cold spell.
I would definately try to do the warm pedialyte bath, but I'd go to the vet too.
It's seems as though many people, who get new frogs, seem to have this exact problem and it's usually been intestinal parasites, it's like I keep reading the same thread over and over again. Go to the vet ASAP, since Elton had been eating fine before stopping, it could have been that the parasites had just been reproducing during the dip in the immune system due to the stress of the move. The colony inside his gut may now be a level that he is uncomfortable and not getting any nitrients from the food he is ingesting. From what I understand getting the treatment for deworming will not hurt the frog, but I think you have a lot more experience than I do.
As a pet owner, it has been my experience that I feel unsure at the time and feel as though I maybe over reacting. I will wait or ask my friends before I act, but if you think he's sick, he probably is and don't make my mistakes by waiting too long.
Do you have a vet? Tell them it's an emergency.
Let us know and I hope Elton will be ok.

[charlamanda]

I have a vet hospital that deals with small animals in my city, though whether they deal with frogs or not I have to find out. With it being a holiday weekend, there is nothing I will be able to do until Tuesday at the earliest.

Elton has moved, though. He obviously had a nice soak in his water dish and is now clinging to the side of his tank. I am going to add a few crickets to his enclosure tonight and see if I can watch him eat. I know Rongo (his tankmate) is eating and I am wondering if Rongo was bullying Elton when it came to the food. And I can't figure out why Rongo is a nice green now, and Elton is mud brown. I'm hoping it's a food/bullying thing because that I can correct immediately!

Ha you posted while I was writting. I completely forgot about the holiday..that sucks!!! The warm water probably made him feel better, after Tiny and Baby would have their warm Pedialyte soak they would perk up too. The mud brown definately sounds like stress for sure and hoefully Elton will eat. I'll keep my fingers crossed.
Come on Elton get those crickets and hasn't Rongo been watching to tv about bullying?? Bad Rongo!!

[Greg M]

Hi Jo,

I feel bad you you! My first suggestions mirror those of previous posters - keep the two apart and take him to a herp vet, when you get a chance. Secondly, and others are welcome to disagree with this, if he hasn't been treated for chytrid (Terbinafine or itraconazole) and worms (Panacur), I would recommend that you do so. The dark color suggests stress, but that could be due to underlying health issues such as chytrid or worms. I treat all my herps prophylactically for both, and there are methods on the forum, although please pm me if you need suggestions. I haven't found problems associated with either treatment. Good luck to your little guy!!!!

Greg

[Jace]

Thanks, guys. I have only had Rongo and Elton for about 3-4 weeks; they spent a year in the petstore before that. I have seen Rongo go through a variety of colour changes while in the store and he seems to be holding a steady olive green and singing every morning. Elton was always smaller and dark brown, though with me he did develop green on the side of his belly and along his legs. I talked to the petstore and they showed me the treatments both frogs received for worms; chytrid is not a treatment routinely done yet.

For the time being, I am going to keep him separate, offer him a warm soak in the evening, mist him regularly to keep humidity up, and tonight I am offering him 3 crickets that I hope he will eat. Thanks for all the suggestions and help and Greg, I will PM you if I need further help. Thanks everyone!

[Paul Rust]

I hope the little fella gets better soon Jo.

[Jace]

Thanks, Paul, me too.. I am thinking I have two males now, though Elton has yet to make any sound. Regardless, he looks like an Elton, and I can't change his name to anything else. Aroha is now Rongo, which means "peace"....though he is anything but peaceful at 5 AM!!