Dart frogs for a beginner

[Paul Rust]

Lot's of good stuff here guys.
As far as critters in the substrate go, absolutely yes. I always keep springtails going strong in my dart enclosures, particularly thumbnail frogs. But the larger ones enjoy hunting them down too. I can't really prove it but I think they keep the viv healthy.
Sounds like you are going to be a good Dart Frog keeper!

[Paul Rust]

Oh, I almost forgot. I culture twice as many fruit flies as I need. They won't go to waste because I give them a treat of lots of flies now and then. I don't want to run out. I feed them pinhead crickets as a snack now and then too, they go nuts for them!

[bogalog]

Ok, im going to get started on the fruit flies next week, and there are plenty of woodlice that i can trial in my tank from my garden

You say you use an automated misting system Paul, is that similar to the repti-fogger humidifier? I have found this for about £50, and am very tempted as I dont want to miss spraying the tank and get into problems.

I am going to go to southern aquatics (local shop for aquariums, where I originally found the milk tree frogs) and have a look at the fish tanks that I could possibly modify. Seems like a perfect excuse to buy that dremel tool I wanted a while back!


I have a new worry now.... that once I am setup with the fruit fly colonies and some experience under my belt, it will be too hard to say no to more tanks of frogs

[Paul Rust]

I don't like the foggers. I make a high pressure system similar to the Mist-King systems. But you might like the fogger, give it a shot as it's a lot less expensive if you don't like it.

[bogalog]

Ok, new question!

Drainage - if i were to go for a misting system, I assume that drainage will become more of a problem - I have seen two possible solutions to this:

1. drill a hole in the side of the tank for water to drain out of (obviously with some kind of pipe and stop system)

2. run a pipe down the side of the pipe into the drainage layer and simply cap the top to stop bugs from leaving

Obviously, number 2 is easier to accomplish, and can be easily hidden. Is this the best way to manage it? Is there anything I'm not considering here?

Edit: I'm currently watching videos on making your own vivarium backgrounds, and have realised that not only will these tanks be very hard to empty out to clean properly, but wont you have to have a suitable temporary enclosure for the frog? (including all the humidity concerns etc.)
I realise these are meant to be low maintenance frogs, and spot cleaning can be done, but do these not need to have a proper clean out of the tank?

Sorry about all the questions, I don't want to mess up

[John]

Unless you've a bunch of tanks, I recommend hand misting - gives you an excuse to check out what's happening in the terrarium on a regular basis.

To answer your new questions:

Misting is a way of life with dart frog terraria, hand or automatic misting system. So drainage is something to seriously take into account.

Solution 1 is great if you are experienced at drilling glass with a diamond hole saw.

I actually use solution 2 - just make sure you cap the pipe in some fashion, and that you put something on the bottom so the pipe won't come up when you remove the cap. Drill some holes in the sides at the bottom of the pipe to allow water to enter freely.

If you've got a planted terrarium with a good substrate mix, you don't need to spot clean - you might have to clean out a small terrarium every 3 or 4 years, at worst. You can set up a temporary dart frog container easily. I routinely use these:

Josh's Frogs - 190 oz. quarantine/temporary enclosure & lid - quarantine/temporary enclosures

I put about 1 inch (2.5 cm) of wet coconut husk (the chunks) in the bottom. On top of this I put some leaf litter that won't rot quickly (in the US they have a species of tree called "Live Oak", which is ideal. You can also use magnolia leaves. All should be dried/old leaves, not fresh ones). I spray the container down with distilled water to moisten everything, with a hint of water in the base of the coconut fiber, and then I put plant cuttings on top of the leaf litter. The easiest for me is Devil's Ivy, also known as Pothos - Epipremnum aureum. Then the frogs go in straight away. Keep the container in a room that is about 21-25 °C (early 70s °F), and mist every few days. Feed the frogs every 1-2 days on dusted fruit flies.

[bogalog]

Thanks so much for your help John, you and everyone else on this forum have been fantastic.

My bedroom rarely goes below 23 degrees if im there, and i've seen anything up to 31 degrees when i refused to open the window after using my computer for a long period, so a temporary container like the one you suggested would do fine for a short period, I wouldnt have to worry about temperatures.

I've been reading guides on how to build terrariums, and plan to use yours on this site (which is a fantastic guide by the way). I followed some people's diaries when they made their own terrarium backs, and the combination of your false bottom method with an expanding foam backdrop seems feasible, and at a reasonable cost.

I will definitely start hand misting, and if humidity becomes a problem I can always sort out an automatic system in the future.

I have no experience in cutting glass, nor aquarium or terrarium construction, which is why I am swaying towards modifying an exo-terra rather than trying to create my own. I guess it depends on the range available.

I have managed to find oak leaves which are apparently suitable for dart frogs and will decay slowly, and my local shop sells many different substrates for amphibian and reptile use, I dont think that will be a problem.

I know you say I can get the frogs in as soon as the plants are in, but I'm going to watch it for a bit, make sure I can keep the humidity and temperature at reasonable levels, as well as making sure I can get their fruit flies going.

One more question before I go to bed - I am edging towards leucomelas, do I need a light in the top or not? The tank will be away from the window, not in the dark but not in bright light by any means.

[Paul Rust]

Here are a few pics of a simple drain. The fitting is 4" high in the drain rock. This enclosure stays hot, over 80F and is heated from the bottom so lots of water keeps it humid. I empty the botttle about every 2 months.

You will want a light for the live plants. Also to simulate the 12 hour photoperiod that they have in nature.