Dart frogs for a beginner

[bogalog]

Hi all, I posted in another section of the forum about trying to decide which type of frog to keep, and the more i think about it, the more dart frogs make sense for me.

My reasons for considering dart frogs:

They are diurnal - nocturnal frogs could definitely be an issue when they call (have to keep the tank in my room)

I am much happier about handling fruit flies, and indeed having a go at breeding them myself (and so is my mum, who will look after whatever frog i get if i go away)

They are just plain cuter


Obviously I want to get some first hand experiences of keeping dart frogs if im going to try . I havent kept frogs before, or even any kind of amphibian/reptile, I am willing to put in effort to get this to work (of course), but is it something I should even try? Do I need some experience of keeping other frogs before I start on these more complicated frogs?

I am currently reading through caresheets and anything else helpful i can find on the net, but I would really appreciate advice from you helpful bunch

I would still like to buy an exo-terra enclosure (or similar pre-made), what size would be appropriate?
Do they need to be kept together? I assume a pair would be best?
From this care sheet http://www.amphibiancare.com/frogs/c...ndartfrog.html
there are several types easier to keep, and I have found some of them on this site: http://www.dartfrog.co.uk/amphibians.html.
But i would prefer to go see them in person - are there any shops with darts in stock in south england? I cant remember seeing any dart frogs in the reptile shops i've been in.

The more I think about it, the more dart frogs make sense!

Thanks for any advice!

[Paul Rust]

First of all, Welcome to FrogForum!
Darts can be just fine as a first attempt with amphibians if you do your homework. The best advice I can give is to not try and re-invent the wheel. Darts can be challenging and finnicky. Once you get the enclosure setup and have temperature and humidity under control, the rest is easy! Many members here keep darts and can help you get set up and recommend some good species to begin with. Good luck and have fun!

[John911]

I am a beginner, but have had frogs in the past..just not on this level. I picked up some cobalt tincs a month ago, and couldnt be happier with them. They are always out and exploring. I keep 3 in a 20 long, but i am ready to sepparate one if it becomes an issue. Ive successfully bred fruitflies my first try. All I can say is keep doing your homework and ask questions.

[bogalog]

Thanks for the replies guys, I appreciate the help.

Specifically, I am looking at Dendrobates tinctorius azureus, would a 12x12x18" tank be enough for one? I can only manage one tank where i am at the moment, and cant risk having to buy a second if they become territorial. Of course, if they are much happier in pairs or groups I will have to rethink it, the next size up in a tank of that shape is 18x18x24", which is getting on the large side :P

I'm carefully reading through the article on modifying tanks for dart frogs, and it seems doable.

Ok, question time!

1. My bedroom (where i am planning to keep the frog/s) varies in temperature between about 24 and 28 degrees. Do i still need to worry about heating to create some form of temperature gradient, or is it unnecessary?

2. Can i keep azure tincs. on their own? or do they need to be kept with a partner?

3.If they can be kept on their own, is 12x12x18" a reasonable size for the vivarium?

4. Do i need a misting machine? or is daily misting by hand ok?


Thanks for the help, I really do appreciate it

Edit: From what i've managed to find, azure tincs are best kept in male+female pairs, will shops guarantee sexes? Isn't it difficult to sex them when they are young?

I'm also considering Dendrobates Leucomelas - are they any easier than azure tincs? I realise they are more of a ground dwelling frog, what kind of size tank is good for one or two of them?
I read that they are easier to keep in groups, given enough space, but I dont have enough space to keep groups, only one, maybe two

[Paul Rust]

1. 24-28 is a good daytime temp. I let the enclosure cool to 21 during the night. I automate all environmental variables so I can simulate natural conditions and adjust it throughout the seasons of their natural range.

2. Two males will try to kill each other. A male-female pair or a single of either will do just fine.

3. That is fine for a pair or one.

4. Misting by hand is fine if you monitor the humidity. Again, I use an automated misting system.

None of this is absolute and others will undoubtedly have some more ideas for you.


Edit. Leucomelas are a great beginner dart and do well in groups.

[bogalog]

Thanks for your help, I basically need to decide between a floor-dwelling and tree-dwelling dart frog now.
I've ordered "Poison Dart Frogs" by A and S sihler to read, and I'm still finding useful bits of information on the internet.
I think as soon as I've decided which frog, I'll buy the vivarium and make sure I can keep the conditions stable, while breeding some fruit flies. Once I know I've got the basics down, I'll start looking at where to get the frogs!

Thanks again