Old pacman frog, nearing the end advice.

[hagarthefish]

Hi, I have a pacman female frog called Bill. I have had her for thirteen and a half years. She has in the last month or so lost most of her colour and has stopped eating anything. Her tank temp is 82% and the humidity is also in the 80's.
Is there anything I can do for her, such as honey baths ? If so what sort and how much honey? She has never been sick. I think she is just nearing the end, what do you think?
Thank you

[GrifTheGreat]

Hi, I have a pacman female frog called Bill. I have had her for thirteen and a half years. She has in the last month or so lost most of her colour and has stopped eating anything. Her tank temp is 82% and the humidity is also in the 80's.
Is there anything I can do for her, such as honey baths ? If so what sort and how much honey? She has never been sick. I think she is just nearing the end, what do you think?
Thank you

Hello

Post some pictures of her before she changed color and after please.


She is already beyond the average captive lifespan and that is no minor thing. I would like to see her before making any further suggestions.

[hagarthefish]

I just want to say, I have never used moss in her setup up until two days ago. She kept growing a clear shiny skin over her entire body and eyes. I was giving her a bath every few days to remove it. I then decided to just cover her in damp moss and leave her be. Perhaps She is trying to hibernate ? I don't want to keep removing her and bathing her as She is is only ever picked up when the tank is fully cleaned out ever two months or so.
I removed the moss just now to take the photo and a lot of her colour has come back. She still has the shiny skin all over her and her eyes. Her colour is still not as it was however.
The first three photo's are before the one with the moss is now.

[GrifTheGreat]

Could you answer the questions in this list https://www.frogforum.net/showthread...-the-Enclosure and repost in here in your thread? She looks like she may have edema. When you bathe her and assist with her shed, does she urinate?

[hagarthefish]

1. Size of enclosure / 45x45x45cm Exo Terra
2. # of inhabitants - specifically other frogs and size differences / On her own
3. Humidity / Mid 80's
4. Temperature / Hottest spot of 82%
5. Water - type - for both misting and soaking dish / Tap water for misting and de-cloranated tap water for bathing
6. Materials used for substrate / Coco coir
7. Enclosure set up i.e. plants (live or artificial), wood, bark and other materials. / Artificial plants and cork bark on sides of tank
- How were things prepared prior to being put into the viv. / All bought for reptiles and clean
8. Main food source / Locusts, mice and rat pups and Zoo med soft bites mix
9. Vitamins and calcium? (how often) / Nutrobal every third feed (just a dusting)
10. Lighting. / Arcadia Jungle Dawn LED Bar. Partially blocked with sheet of wood as She likes the shade.
11. What is being used to maintain the temperature of the enclosure. Heat mat on side and 100watt ceramic overhead on thermostat,
Under tank heat mat set to 73% under a third of tank.
12. When is the last time he/she ate / aprox two months
13. Have you found poop lately / No
14. A pic would be helpful including frog and enclosure (any including cell phone pic is fine)
15. Describe frog's symptoms and/or recent physical changes; to include it's ventral/belly area./ already discused
16. How old is the frog / 13 and a half years
17. How long have you owned him/her/ Since she was a couple of months old
18. Is the frog wild caught or captive bred / captive
19. Frog food- how often and if it is diverse, what other feeders are used as treats / Used to eat every couple of weeks, She would turn to look at me when hungry.
20. How often the frog is handled / Every couple of months only , when fully cleaning tank.
21. Is the enclosure kept in a high or low traffic area / Fairly quiet
22. Describe enclosure maintenance (water changes, cleaning, etc). Spot clean, when frog movedafter going toilet, full substrate clean
every couple of months. Clean out water dish every week although She never goes in it (or hardly). Auto mister goes off for a few seconds several time a day to keep
humidity up
Older pic of tank setup

[hagarthefish]

Older pics of the tank set up

[hagarthefish]

Could you answer the questions in this list https://www.frogforum.net/showthread...-the-Enclosure and repost in here in your thread? She looks like she may have edema. When you bathe her and assist with her shed, does she urinate?

One of the times when I put her in the bath I think she urinated as I thought she was going to poo. She looks and feels kind of spongy.

[GrifTheGreat]

One of the times when I put her in the bath I think she urinated as I thought she was going to poo. She looks and feels kind of spongy.

I see. Water edema syndrome is common and especially so as they age. Typically their kidneys begin to not function as well and there is really only a couple things you can do yourself.

1. You can make her environment slightly dryer and limit her access to water.

2.You can try to get her to expell the fluid through urinating and use a hypertonic soak which may cause the fluid to diffuse out if her body.

The third option is to find and consult a vet. There are meds to treat edema such as Furosemide, but it is administered by subcutaneous injection.

You can also provide her with an electrolyte bath to see if it perks her up a bit. Discoloration can be linked to many things, even stress which is possible given how much fluid she is retaining. Other ailments such as bacterial infections can lead to edema and dermatosepticemia. Parasites can also cause edema if they cause enough damage. I'm not suggesting she has an infection. It's just a possible cause.

I see nothing wrong with your husbandry and you've obviously cared for her very well. I hope that this is something that can be helped and she lives a few more years with you. You must realise that with old age and having edema nothing may work and be ready for what may be inevitable. Just try to keep her comfortable.

Let me know which you decide to go with.

[hagarthefish]

Thank you so much for your help and advice. I just want to keep her comfortable in her last days or weeks. I don't want to have her injected at all. I have given her a bath with 2 lts of dechlorinated water with 5grams of epsom salts, heated to 82%. I noticed no difference after half an hour of soaking. She is very weak, but seems comfortable. No signs of distress apart from her colour.
I am under no illusion as to the likely/probable outcome. I will miss Bill and am gutted for her, She has been here so long. Thank you.

[GrifTheGreat]

Thank you so much for your help and advice. I just want to keep her comfortable in her last days or weeks. I don't want to have her injected at all. I have given her a bath with 2 lts of dechlorinated water with 5grams of epsom salts, heated to 82%. I noticed no difference after half an hour of soaking. She is very weak, but seems comfortable. No signs of distress apart from her colour.
I am under no illusion as to the likely/probable outcome. I will miss Bill and am gutted for her, She has been here so long. Thank you.

You're welcome.

I am sorry there is nothing more to be done.

[hagarthefish]

Bill died a few days ago and is buried in my brothers garden. Bill was with us more than long enough to become family and I do and will miss her.
Thank you for all advice recently and through the years, Bill did live a good long life and was only ever sick at the end....

[GrifTheGreat]

Bill died a few days ago and is buried in my brothers garden. Bill was with us more than long enough to become family and I do and will miss her.
Thank you for all advice recently and through the years, Bill did live a good long life and was only ever sick at the end....

You're welcome.

I'm sorry for your loss. Wish there was more that could have been done.

[cwebster]

Am so sorry for your loss. Bill was lovely and obviously loved and well cared for. Thirteen plus years is awesome!