Results 1 to 5 of 5

Thread: New to frogs.. RETF, Vietnamese Mossy Frogs and Fire Bellied Toads.. help pls

  1. #1
    Newbie
    Join Date
    Feb 2020
    Nationality
    [Canada]
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    2

    Question New to frogs.. RETF, Vietnamese Mossy Frogs and Fire Bellied Toads.. help pls

    Hello everyone,
    I'm very new to frogs, having kept mostly fish and reptiles in the past. 2 weeks ago however, I recently bought a biopod aqua from a gentleman. It houses 5 fire bellied toads, 1 Vietnamese mossy frog and 2 Red Eyed Tree frogs.

    I've been reading care sheets and forums since I acquired them, and I have a number of concerns that'd I'd really appreciate some feedback on.

    I'm concerned about the Vietnamese mossy frog, he is VERY skinny and always hanging out at the bottom of the tank submerged in water (along with the fire bellies). I think it's because the tank is way too hot for him (77-85F) so I've moved him to a 10 gal tank with shallow water, plants and a big log, with the temperature more around 70-75F. I've been offering dusted crickets for the last 2 nights but don't think he's eating them. I also have 3 butter worms in a dish he's ignored too. I've seen other people do quarantine tanks with just damp paper towel and a few plants so you can monitor eating etc, however I've also read that stress can make frogs not want to eat... so I'm wondering if I should try leaving him in his current set-up for a while and do my best to monitor crickets etc. or is it best to do the paper towel set-up (and is there anything I can do to encourage him to eat)??

    As for the Red eyes and toads, I've now been reading that housing Fire Bellied toads with other animals can be potentially fatal due to their toxins (makes sense, toads secrete toxins and frogs have very permeable skin), however many people have suggested that tree frogs are ok to co-habit as they remain up high and the toads in the water below (<also concerned for the poor mossy frog that constantly hung out in the water :/ ).
    So far the Red Eyes seem healthy and remain in the top half of the tank, however they are a bit skinny.... am wondering if the fire bellies are eating most of the crickets (they eat ANYTHING that moves down below).
    Has anyone else housed fire bellies and red eyes safely??

    Lastly (and kinda the main reason I wanted to post rather than continue to read articles), my one Red eye spent the day not on a leaf or glass, but horizontal on a patch of moss... unusual. When he woke up tonight he seemed to look bloated... he also seems darker than the last few weeks and has redish tinges on his back legs.... not sure if I'm being paranoid now I'm reading about different issues that can occur or if something is starting to show up and he's sick... :/
    (I'll attach pictures)

    Everyone is fed gut-loaded, dusted med-lg crickets every 2 days, humidity is between 70-80, misted 2-3x daily.

    Thanks in advance for any advice, I'm really looking forward to learning about and caring for these frogs.

    Emily

    ps. the Mossy is calling (it's SO cute!) hoping that's a sign he's feeling happy? (and will be a good boy and eat lots -.-)

    (pictures are: 'sick'? Red eyed tree frog is RETF1, the healthier looking one is RETF2, the mossy frog (best pic I have rn, he usually hides), the biopod, and the mossy frogs new enclosure)
    Attached Images Attached Images        

  2. # ADS
    Circuit advertisement
    Join Date
    Always
    Location
    Advertising world
    Posts
    Many
     

  3. #2
    100+ Post Member DanDrobates's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Nationality
    [United States]
    Location
    New York
    Posts
    334
    Picture Albums: Member Photo Albums

    Default Re: New to frogs.. RETF, Vietnamese Mossy Frogs and Fire Bellied Toads.. help pls

    Ok. There is a lot going on here so I will offer my advice point by point.

    1. First off, kudos to you for realizing that things aren’t quite right for your animals and for being proactive about fixing them. You are doing the right thing by doing your research and for looking out for their best interests. Most beginners don’t get to this step and that’s why they stay beginners.
    2. The seller shouldn’t have sold you three different species housed together as they are. That was irresponsible on his or her part.
    3. Cohabitating different species is a big no no for many reasons. Some include: competition for resources, heightened risk of disease and parasite transmission, stress, and conflicting husbandry requirements. (All of which seem to apply in your case).
    4. The best resolution is to separate each species into its own enclosure.
    5. Mossy frogs appreciate colder temperatures. I keep mine between 69 and 72. It is normal for them to hang out partially submerged though so what you are observing is a normal behavior. They are semi aquatic and I keep mine in a tall aquarium with 4 inches of water on the bottom and several cork bark tubes placed at different angles. They do tend to look “thin” when stretched out compared to other species. They actually prefer poor water quality so don’t worry if a few crickets die in it. They can also be very shy.
    6. RETFs prefer temps in the mid to upper 70s. I keep mine in a well planted exo terra. I mist twice daily and I cup feed. There is a lot of information on them so I won’t get into their care.
    7.FBTs do secret toxins but bear in mind that many anurans do. Even whites treefrogs secrete a toxin. The risk of exposure through contact or consumption is possible with many species and as such cohabing is risky.

    I hope this helps

  4. This member thanks DanDrobates for this post:


  5. #3
    100+ Post Member Larry Wardog's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Nationality
    [United States]
    Location
    PA
    Posts
    1,394
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default Re: New to frogs.. RETF, Vietnamese Mossy Frogs and Fire Bellied Toads.. help pls

    I don't own any of these so I second Dan's advice!

    The only thing that I will add is the toxin issue. I'm not suggesting mixing species by any means, but many people have the same assumptions as the OP that bufo toads (native toads) like FBT have toxin that runs into the water and poisons the other frogs. I don't know exactly about FBT, but there is no scientific proof that toad toxins leach out and contaminate the water, or kill other frogs and toads. It's a myth nobody knows where it came from.

    Dan has a fascinating point that if a frog or toad is consumed it can poison the other and cause death. Even if a frog lunges it's tongue out at a toad or vice versa it's not enough with most anurans to effect them.

    I'm not suggesting mixing with these three species i am just bringing attention to this point. I'll be following the thread to see how things go.

    Good luck!

    Sent from my BKL-L04 using Tapatalk

  6. #4
    Newbie
    Join Date
    Feb 2020
    Nationality
    [Canada]
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    2

    Default Re: New to frogs.. RETF, Vietnamese Mossy Frogs and Fire Bellied Toads.. help pls

    Thank you both for your input, I really appreciate it!

    So far the mossy seems to like his new enclosure and I can sneak glimpses of him climbing around at night (and occasionally calling).

    I think I'll er on the side of caution with the firebellies, also so they don't eat all the crickets the RETF's need. I tried doing some searching on Google Scholar about the FBT toxins as well, I had read some anecdotal accounts about fish being killed by toxins in the water but some were successful with guppies and bettas living with them as well. I couldn't find much on the toxins they carry, it'd be very interesting if there was a simple way to measure the amount of toxins in the water over time though.
    (though I don't think I'd personally want to risk other frogs or fish without knowing)

  7. #5
    100+ Post Member Larry Wardog's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Nationality
    [United States]
    Location
    PA
    Posts
    1,394
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default Re: New to frogs.. RETF, Vietnamese Mossy Frogs and Fire Bellied Toads.. help pls

    Quote Originally Posted by EmilySwirl View Post
    Thank you both for your input, I really appreciate it!

    So far the mossy seems to like his new enclosure and I can sneak glimpses of him climbing around at night (and occasionally calling).

    I think I'll er on the side of caution with the firebellies, also so they don't eat all the crickets the RETF's need. I tried doing some searching on Google Scholar about the FBT toxins as well, I had read some anecdotal accounts about fish being killed by toxins in the water but some were successful with guppies and bettas living with them as well. I couldn't find much on the toxins they carry, it'd be very interesting if there was a simple way to measure the amount of toxins in the water over time though.
    (though I don't think I'd personally want to risk other frogs or fish without knowing)
    To my knowledge I haven't heard of toxin leeching into the water at all. Did you find something that said this? I'd be very interested in reading it!

    Serpa Design kept Green Anoles for years with FBT. I'm not saying do it, but the idea of toxic water seems odd if the anoles drank the same FBT bath water. It was his 125 gallon. He talked a little about his experience with them. Like I said I'm not saying do it, but he at least has an experience with these toads.

    Sent from my BKL-L04 using Tapatalk

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Sexing Vietnamese Mossy Frogs...
    By M11 in forum Tree Frogs
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: November 6th, 2015, 05:12 PM
  2. Fire bellied toads (frogs)
    By frogteacher in forum Vivarium, Terrarium & Enclosure Discussion
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: September 29th, 2014, 12:32 PM
  3. My vietnamese mossy frogs won't eat
    By Basil in forum Frogs
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: August 3rd, 2014, 04:44 PM
  4. Vietnamese Mossy Frogs
    By Ashley361 in forum Other Frogs & Toads
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: March 14th, 2014, 01:54 PM
  5. Replies: 0
    Last Post: February 11th, 2014, 05:14 PM

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •