New Huge Cane Toad

[mdeford09]

She is absolutely massive and gorgeous! If you ever want to sell her or trade for a slightly smaller one, let me know

That aside, I think your forced feeding is having a negative effect on her opening up to you. It is really traumatizing to them and often very painful to have their mouth forced open. Some have even broken their jaw doing it, leading to their amphs inability to eat on its own ever again... This technique should really only used when providing medication that is mandatory and when they're so emaciated they HAVE to have something or they will die. I did this to an American toad one time and she never ate from tongs for me again. Prior to that, she was a very healthy eater.

You saw my pics on the other site. I didn't force feed her at all. Just gave her space and let her her thing for about a month. Then, once she realized this place is safe and food is coming, she turned into bottomless pit, almost doubling in weight in a couple months.

These toads are extremely hardy and can survive months with zero food. (many are rarely fed after being captured for import and can sit in boxes for weeks).

I highly recommend you stop force feeding and try to let her recover. Don't hold her unless it's mandatory and leave insects in a ceramic bowl they can't climb out of. It is likely going to take a long time (over a month is not unreasonable) before she digs into food on her own. Just make sure she has fresh water daily and a clean place to hide. (they like to poop in their hides when they're stressed so, I am guessing she's done this)

[Hart24601]

I went about a month without her feeding before I force fed, and let her go hungry for at least 1.5 months if not 2 months and neither attempt was successful. I really don’t take force feeding lightly, however the credit card method has been easy as she opens up right away and I pay attention to any redness or damage that might occur closely, once she opens up I put my finger at the corner of the mouth since my finger is soft. Neither one of us like it much so I will try letting her get hungry again but will have to wait until after this treatment since I need to force her to take antibiotics for 10 days. After not eating for 3 months (combined – not at once) I figured keeping her alive was top priority, as I doubt she was eating at NERD and honestly at that point I wasn’t comfortable letting her go longer since it could have been many months (plus the one I waited) since she ate. I also wanted to get a fecal sample to the vet and can’t do that with no poo. I personally feel she would be dead if I hadn’t done it. I think I read (maybe here) about someone with exp with large cane toads and force feeding if needed and some of the big wilds didn’t take food for 6 months but would come around.

She finally comes out to soak in her bowl at night, took 4 months, and now poops in there so that is a great quality of life improvement for us both! Took some fresh poo in to the vet so once we clear this round up antibiotics which hopefully work, will try food again with a deep bowl and let her go up to two months before force feeding. I have tried the bowl before several times but hopefully she will get it sometime. I know it’s not ideal but I feel have to make a bit of a judgement call at that point and I do keep a log of her weight and how many grams I feed her so I will see how much loss is during that time.

Really appreciate the ideas and comments!

[Hart24601]

Interesting, I was looking at this article from 2016:

How much UV-B does my reptile need? The UV-Tool, a guide to the
selection of UV lighting for reptiles and amphibians in captivity
Frances Baines1*, Joe Chattell2, James Dale3, Dan Garrick4, Iri Gill5, Matt Goetz6, Tim Skelton7 and Matt Swatman3

There is a chart at the end with various species and this article is mostly about how important it is to mimic the ideal environment. Here is what is listed for cane toads in this order, Biome, thermoregulatory behavior, photoperiod, microhabitat. Based on this I might try and keep her a little warmer and add a weak UV bulb.

Cane Toad:
Tropical and Subtropical Moist Broadleaf Forests;
partial sun/ occasional basker;
13:11h summer:winter;
Basking temp: 86-95;
Temps: Summer 82-90 Day, 75-79 night;
Temps: Winter 75-82 day, 72-75 night
Microhabitat: Leaf litter, Rocks crevicies or burrows, Grassland or savanna, Riparian or wetland

[Hart24601]

Here is something interesting I came across when searching this site. It's an article about UV and mimicking native habitats with a species guide at the bottom. Here is the section for cane toads. Perhaps I will add low level UV and increase temps a bit from low to mid 70s. Interesting they state these are occasional baskers.

How much UV-B does my reptile need? The UV-Tool, a guide to the
selection of UV lighting for reptiles and amphibians in captivity
Frances Baines1*, Joe Chattell2, James Dale3, Dan Garrick4, Iri Gill5, Matt Goetz6, Tim Skelton7 and Matt Swatman3

The listings below are biome, thermoregulatory behavior, photoperiod, microhabitat.

Cane Toad:
Tropical and Subtropical Moist Broadleaf Forests;
partial sun/ occasional basker;
13:11h summer:winter;
Basking temps: 86-95;
Temps: Summer 82-90 Day, 75-79 night
Temps: Winter 75-82 day, 72-75 night
Microhabitat: Leaf litter, Rocks crevices or burrows, Grassland or savanna, Riparian or wetland

[Hart24601]

The poo came back as ok, so no wormer needed. I have been very worried about her leg wound, the vet said to wait it out and let him know when the antibiotics are done unless it gets worse or black spots appear to be debrided. The leg looked really bad last week, however it seems to be improving, I was thinking might lose her last week. The antibiotics are 10-14 day and it's been a week so will give it 7 more days before decide if she needs to visit the vet again. I called him few days after initial treatment to say it was swelling much more and he increased the daily dose to .1ml, aka 10mg daily. Fingers crossed.

[Animallover3541]

Could she not be eating out of fear of you or maybe other animals? If she feels like there's a predator around her she might not be willing to give away her location by going after food.

I hope she gets better soon! Keep us updated.

[Hart24601]

Could she not be eating out of fear of you or maybe other animals? If she feels like there's a predator around her she might not be willing to give away her location by going after food.

I hope she gets better soon! Keep us updated.

It's very possible, although she does now come out at night to sit in her waterbowl sometimes so she will come out that far at least. Before she was sick I tried keeping her in a smaller frosted Rubbermaid tote for few days with night crawlers in the basement so there would be 0 movement down there without luck.

Hopefully her infection clears up so I can worry about not eating again!

The vet thought there could have been some sort of infection or issue that was already present before the leg injury, so it's possible she had been fighting something off for a while that made her not eat, but it wasn't until the cut that the illness was noticeable.

I think that I have read every post on the site about toads not eating, frustrating when the wild toads here will eat from your fingers!

You bring up a good point, she doesn't seem to worried in her cave when I pass by, but maybe I should tape construction paper on the sides of the glass (outside) to remove any potential stress she might have.

[Hart24601]

Butcher paper. Handy for smoking food and sick toads!

[Hart24601]

Off the antibiotics now. Still some swelling so brought her in for a follow up. The vet said no charge for follow ups which blew my mind. I even protested a bit, ha! Just seems like can’t take up that much of their time for nothing...

He chatted about the Chicago show and his previous reptile breeding, was really nice. I asked about possibility of her breaking the leg so he said ‘let’s take a radiograph for fun!’

Long story short there is some bone damage on the left knee, which isn’t too bad and not unexpected because the bone is so close to the skin and he figures was caused from the infection. He said aside from a limp should be fine.

The other vet came in and we talked about ideas for her eating. They suggested raising temp up to 80 and see if that helps since she was collected in tropics. Said 3-4 weeks is ok to try, then force feed her and try again but a month is the limit at one time.

Total bill. $0. Total including last time with the antibiotics and two feces exams? $45. Amazing place. He even tried finding vendors selling marine toads at the Chicago fair to ask about how they kept them and issues although couldn’t find any.