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Thread: New Colorado River Toads....(20!!!)

  1. #1
    Mordecai
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    Default New Colorado River Toads....(20!!!)

    I was at work yesterday around 12pm, when I received a text that said "Help please! Hurry Home!" So I took my lunch, and rushed home to find our shipment of 20 "juvenile" Colorado River Toads (Bufo alvarius) had arrived! Juvenile was what we had anticipated, but they are a bit larger! Which is fine, we just used another 20 gallon. A few are a little underweight, but some of that could be dehydration from the shipping. Other than that, we are absolutely thrilled with our new babies! We fed out 10 dozen crickets and they gobbled them up very quickly. We sat by all 4 tanks almost all night just awing at them. I am so excited to "fatten" them up and watch them grow! Here are a few of the pics I took this morning.











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  3. #2
    Founder John's Avatar
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    Default Re: New Colorado River Toads....(20!!!)

    Very nice indeed. They look wild caught to me (the vast majority are, even if the seller claims CB) - I'd get them treated for parasites just to be sure.
    Founder of Frogforum.net (2008) and Caudata.org (2001)

  4. #3
    Mordecai
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    Default Re: New Colorado River Toads....(20!!!)

    Thank you John. Yes, we are starting to realize that may be the case. If there aren't any exotic vets in our area, what would you suggest we do? Should we purchase some sort of medicine to rid them of any parasites they may have, just in case?

    They are so much fun to watch. Now, we have the Cane Toads as well and they are a nice large toad to look at. But, they very rarely move, and if by chance they do, they are very skittish. So it's refreshing to see all these River Toads out and about.

    One of the baby River Toads we got from you is an absolute riot! He was the smallest, and has easily doubled his size since he's been here. Which is not a surprise at all because he will eat ANYTHING that moves! He even strikes at the tweezers we use to dig up worms that have burrowed in his cage. Oh he is too cool.

    Here is a picture of Rico, the little fatty. (he tried to lick the lens twice!)




  5. #4
    Jace
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    Default Re: New Colorado River Toads....(20!!!)

    Congrats on your new arrivals! They are all so cute. I so wish I could get one of these guys. Rico is adorable. Keep the pictures coming!

  6. #5
    SethD
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    Default Re: New Colorado River Toads....(20!!!)

    Twenty, your going to go through a lot of insects, that is for sure. I know how many roaches my rococos and guttatus go through and and I only have around twelve total of those two species. Colorado river toads may eat a bit less due to being a little smaller but I still bet that many will work very hard at eating you out of house and home.

  7. #6
    Founder John's Avatar
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    Default Re: New Colorado River Toads....(20!!!)

    Ella, how's the other one from me doing? Is he/she eating for you? Strange turnabout with them.

    Regarding medicating the others, they should be treated with fenbendazole (Panacur) and metronidazole (Flagyl). Panacur should be used once a week for 2-3 weeks. Flagyl only requires 1-2 doses, say once each week half way through the first 2 weeks (between the Panacur dosages). You _can_ administer these medications yourself, provided your state laws do not prohibit acquiring them. Some forms of both medications are restricted to prescription only but you can acquire them in other forms (i.e. there is flagyl sold for fish that is not prescription only - you can buy it through amazon.com). Large animal supply stores (like Valley Vet) are useful too. The easiest method is to acquire them as powder (or tablets that can be powdered) and dust food items with the dosage and make sure each frog eats the dosed food items.

    For amphibians, the dosing for Panacur is 50 mg/kg (for every kg of animal weight, administer 50 mg, so for an animal that way 100 g, you want to give it 5 mg).

    In the case of Flagyl, the dose for amphibians is 50 mg/kg too. Bruce Maclean ("Herpvet") suggests using probiotics instead of flagyl unless there's a serious problem that indicates flagyl. This is a quote of Bruce in Caudata.org regarding probiotics:

    Quote Originally Posted by herpvet
    Gut microorganisms, usually with prebiotics etc. Not sure about brands available in the states - lacto B9 (Genitrix) or avipro plus (Vetark) are the ones here.

    Theory is that they are beneficial, or at least neutral, microorganisms that compete with (hopefully out-compete) potentially harmful gut microorganisms (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Probiotics for more detail in humans).
    Founder of Frogforum.net (2008) and Caudata.org (2001)

  8. #7
    Mordecai
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    Default Re: New Colorado River Toads....(20!!!)

    Jo-Anna: Thank you so much!! We really love them! By no means do we intend to keep all 20...(well as of an hour ago...all 31!). We want to raise them all up right, learn more about them, and then when they are plump, healthy adults, we intend to sell them. So if you are in the market for one, and aren't in a hurry, I'm sure we could help you find your (toad) match!

    SethD: Oh trust me, we had 'ol Rico for about a month before we received the big shipment, so we had some sort of idea what we were getting into. That little booger will eat ANYTHING that moves. At one point, we had to hand feed the other baby toad because she wouldn't eat on her own. But we didn't want her to choke, so we took one worm at a time, cut it in half, trying to feed her one half, and dropped the other in the tank for the time being. Well he took it upon himself to quickly hop from one side of the 20 gallon to the next and gobble up the second half. When I looked back to grab that half to feed to the other toad, there he stood, looking up at me ready for me to drop another. He's a little pig!
    In one day, we have already fed out 20 dozen crickets, and about 100 dubias. We have a very large dubia colony established at our home, and ironically enough, they prefer the crickets. I'm assuming they were previously fed crickets and the strength of the dubias are a bit shocking. They will get one in their mouth and immediately spit it out, especially if the roach is on its back.
    Hopefully, like Rico, they will adjust to the dubias and eat them. Those bad boys have been gut loaded with all kinds of nutrients, so it would be great if they got them in their system!

    Oh and we have 9 more coming! I'll post pictures as soon as they arrive!

  9. #8
    Mordecai
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    Default Re: New Colorado River Toads....(20!!!)

    Thank you so much John. I did a little research earlier today and read something about the Panacur. I will do what I can to check on laws, and get the medications they may need, and then follow your dosage recommendations.
    As far as the other toad, who was the largest of the three, she/he isn't doing as well as we had hoped. I am wondering if dominance has anything to do with her/him not eating. Rico, the fatty previously mentioned, will immediately attack any food we put in their cage. The other toad seems to get excited, toes moving and all, and will try one or two times to get a cricket, worm, or dubia, but seems to give up after the first two attempts.
    There was one time when I was feeding them worms, that Rico decided it was time to shed, and wandered off from the food. As soon as he hopped off, the other toad took that opportunity and went straight to the food and tried to eat for an hour or so, but was unsuccessful. Jeff and I have force fed her/him twice now in hopes that it will regain some strength and eat on its own.
    For the last two days now, she/he has been half way burrowed with its eyes closed. It isn't looking too good, and we think we will probably lose this one. I really don't know what to do.

  10. #9
    RikoAustria
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    Default Re: New Colorado River Toads....(20!!!)

    Quote Originally Posted by Mordecai View Post
    Here is a picture of Rico, the little fatty. (he tried to lick the lens twice!)



    Great looking toad..... and that's a SUPER awesome name

  11. #10

    Default Re: New Colorado River Toads....(20!!!)

    Those are some nice photographs. Very nice. Adorable little buggers too! Any names for them yet? ;P

  12. #11
    Mordecai
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    Default Re: New Colorado River Toads....(20!!!)

    Riko: Thank you. It is a very nice name isn't it! haha.


    Kevin: Thank you very much. The baby one, Rico, is the only one we have named so far. Well actually, in the batch we received, we got two "pirates" (one missing an eye, and another missing a foot) So, we sort of named one Popeye! The person we purchased them from is sending us 9 more free of charge for the two that are deformed, and the underweight ones. Which I am very happy with. He's a good business man.

    Here is a picture of ol' Popeye. He does surprisingly well when eating and is very active!




  13. #12

    Default Re: New Colorado River Toads....(20!!!)

    Quote Originally Posted by Mordecai View Post
    Riko: Thank you. It is a very nice name isn't it! haha.


    Kevin: Thank you very much. The baby one, Rico, is the only one we have named so far. Well actually, in the batch we received, we got two "pirates" (one missing an eye, and another missing a foot) So, we sort of named one Popeye! The person we purchased them from is sending us 9 more free of charge for the two that are deformed, and the underweight ones. Which I am very happy with. He's a good business man.

    Here is a picture of ol' Popeye. He does surprisingly well when eating and is very active!



    Jeebuz. Thats a s hizzload of colorado toads. :P When you health them up(made up fword). Will you sell them? Or keep them? O: Thats alot of large mouths to feed. but good for you.

  14. #13
    Mordecai
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    Default Re: New Colorado River Toads....(20!!!)

    Oh we definitely intend to sell them. We are working on getting these guys nice and plump. We will grow them, keep logs on them, learn more about them, and then when they reach their full size, we will have them for sale.

  15. #14
    Founder John's Avatar
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    Default Re: New Colorado River Toads....(20!!!)

    He may be a good businessman but he certainly lied about the captive bred status of those toads.
    Founder of Frogforum.net (2008) and Caudata.org (2001)

  16. #15
    Mordecai
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    Default Re: New Colorado River Toads....(20!!!)

    Well you'd have to ask Jeff about that. I thought that before the toads arrived he said they were captive bred. In a email exchange between the guy and Jeff after the toads were delivered, I believe he said he wasn't claiming them to be cb. He is saying that he goes down and collects pairs during the breeding season once a year or something and harvests the eggs as well. But then again, you will have to double check with Jeff. I've just been so consumed with all the little guys, any other information goes in one ear and out the other!

    I heard the first noises last night and dropped everything to run over and listen. I know they make two different calls; an advertisement call and a release call. I know it wasn't the advertisement call, but maybe the release? I'm not quite sure what the release call is for, all I know is anytime one toad would hop on another, the one on the bottom would make this (adorable) sound! So I thought that maybe "release" meant "let go"?? I could be totally wrong here. I only read a couple of paragraphs, before I ran back over to listen.

  17. #16
    Jeff Kennedy
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    Default Re: New Colorado River Toads....(20!!!)

    Yeah that was my bad for assuming things. When he told me how many he had and that he had raised the majority from eggs, I immediately made the assumption that they were captive bred. I was wrong. He collects them himself from areas of Arizona and New Mexico where it is legal and he HAS in fact raised the majority from eggs, however they were eggs that he collected as well. So I guess in a sense, they are captive bred. I'm happy that he's eager to make us happy and the next nine that he sends, are suppose to be flawless examples so we will see what they look like when they arrive.

  18. #17

    Default Re: New Colorado River Toads....(20!!!)

    Quote Originally Posted by Mordecai View Post
    Oh we definitely intend to sell them. We are working on getting these guys nice and plump. We will grow them, keep logs on them, learn more about them, and then when they reach their full size, we will have them for sale.
    Nice. I hope you find good homes for them. Could I make one suggestion if I may?
    Should you sell them, why not quizz the buyer about colorado river toads? Like ask them if they are educated and what they would do should they not want them anymore. Etc. Make them sign some sort of agreement that is legal? So they never get mistreated again. I wish you the best of luck raising these little guys. They look and sound adorable. If it was possible to hug a toad Id hug them. :P Then again I like to hug things guess Iam very weird.

  19. #18
    Jeff Kennedy
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    Default Re: New Colorado River Toads....(20!!!)

    Hey John,

    Just purchased the panacur from a local vet. It is the canine form and contains (3) 1-gram packets. He advised that he thought this and the flagyl might be too harsh on them. I am concerned about the dosage. I know once a week for the next 2-3 weeks so is it ok to just dust the food items? I am concerned I could overmedicate if too much powder is on one bug or a particular frog eats too many bugs with it on there. Am I overreacting here?

  20. #19
    Founder John's Avatar
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    Default Re: New Colorado River Toads....(20!!!)

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Kennedy View Post
    He collects them himself from areas of Arizona and New Mexico where it is legal and he HAS in fact raised the majority from eggs, however they were eggs that he collected as well.
    It is totally illegal to collect them in New Mexico, and it is only legal to collect a handful in Arizona under a state fishing license and under no circumstances can they be brought out of the state - that is illegal. Not only is that a violation of the state laws of Arizona and New Mexico, but it is a federal offense under the Lacey Act. USFW would love his contact information.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Kennedy View Post
    Just purchased the panacur from a local vet. It is the canine form and contains (3) 1-gram packets. He advised that he thought this and the flagyl might be too harsh on them. I am concerned about the dosage. I know once a week for the next 2-3 weeks so is it ok to just dust the food items? I am concerned I could overmedicate if too much powder is on one bug or a particular frog eats too many bugs with it on there. Am I overreacting here?
    You need to dose them as I said earlier - 50 mg per kg of toad weight (so at a guess I would say 1-5 mg per toad, depending on their weights). Dose them by dusting food items. You definitely don't want to dose much more than this and you certainly don't want to under dose them.
    Founder of Frogforum.net (2008) and Caudata.org (2001)

  21. #20
    Jeff Kennedy
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    Default Re: New Colorado River Toads....(20!!!)

    That's interesting. Well like I said before, I was under the assumption that they were captive bred until after I received them. It was after receiving them that I learned how they was collected. I never had a need to check on individual state laws as I assumed that he wouldn't do anything that was illegal just to sell some toads. I'll pass that info on to him just to make sure that he is aware of it in the event that he goes out to collect in the future. So far our guys are responding well to treatment. We are just a couple of days in and have fattened them up significantly. We have got them to adjust to the dubia nicely and hopefully they will take to the panacur as well. Thanks for the info John!

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