New Colorado River Toads....(20!!!)

[Jeff Kennedy]

Are you talking about the "Report a Violation" line? If so, that was the one that I called. They are closed for the holiday. What number are you calling? I'd be happy to call and speak with them.

[John]

You guys could have had a constructive conversation about this but instead it has degenerated into a back-and-forth argument and name calling. Let's be clear, as things stand, the worst that could happen to Jeff would be confiscation of the animals and an outside chance of a fine - there's a Lacey Act violation in there. Since the original advert was for CB, I don't think Jeff has much to worry about. Now, selling them on is a bigger issue - that could certainly lead to trouble.

Rather than berating each other, you should be reporting the original seller - give their full name and address to USFW and Arizona's equivalent.

Regarding the toads themselves, at this point they should not be released because of potential spread of diseases they may have picked up since entering captivity. If they are confiscated, they will either be destroyed or given to another local keeper. No one wins.

Now please be civil.

[Jeff Kennedy]

This whole issue has me completely dumbfounded. I purchased (3) of these guys from a fellow forum member a couple of months back. We fell in love with them immediately. Thought they were one of the most handsome toad species out there with their white belly's and their copper eyes. We lost one right off the bat due to some unforeseen illness and when I found more for sale on Kingsnake, I was thrilled. Actually at the time that I found this seller, there was (4) other sellers on Kingsnake that I inquired about. Up to that point, the only legality that I knew about in regards to this species was that it was illegal to extract it's toxin and smoke it. I was unaware that you couldn't "own" one. I bought what I thought was several CB specimens and when John saw the pictures and commented on them possibly being wild caught and noticed the runny stools, I asked the seller. It was at that time that I was advised that he had reared the young himself from eggs that he had harvested. The last several weeks we have worked endlessly rehabilitating these guys. We've spared no expense and probably at this point are a lot more invested in each toad then we should be. That is ok though because it has been totally rewarding to see them come back to life and look as good as they do now. A total 180 for the whole group. We've actually surprised ourselves with what we are capable of because when we first received them, we had about (10) that we figured could have passed any second. Now we have (1) that we are concerned about and everybody else is thriving and beautiful. It is really disheartening to post our experience with the species and to have it met the way it was, i.e. what this has turned in to. When we purchased this batch, we had every intent on keeping almost the entire bunch. We have had numerous messages and emails from people inquiring whether or not we would consider selling some of these once they were better. For that reason, we decided a couple of days ago that the group as a whole was in great condition and could be passed on to the caring hands of a few other hobbyists. At most, we were only going to let go of (4). What has transpired since is unfortunate and makes me refrain from wanting to share anything else on this forum. I feel like we have done a great deed for these toads. If we wouldn't have purchased them, they would have just wasted away in the sellers care. I never asked for a pat on the back but I didn't expect to be made out like a bad guy because I didn't research fish and gaming laws in the continental 50 before purchasing. Lesson learned I guess. I guess that when I logged on to so many websites and saw reputable buisness's offering them for sale, I never got the notion that I should check and see whether or not I could legally purchase one. Actually, I've never done that with any frog purchase. I'm still in a grey area about it all. I read one thing that says it's illegal to possess it, I read another that says its not. I have been in communication with the seller who re-iterates that he is in touch with gaming officils every year before he collects, etc. It just really sucks pretty much. I'm an honest man making an honest living and frogs are something that I enjoy. This on the other hand has not been enjoyable and I don't appreciate how I am made to look like a bad guy or a poacher or whatever. Oh well, I'm done on the topic.

[Paul Rust]

You guys could have had a constructive conversation about this but instead it has degenerated into a back-and-forth argument and name calling. Let's be clear, as things stand, the worst that could happen to Jeff would be confiscation of the animals and an outside chance of a fine - there's a Lacey Act violation in there. Since the original advert was for CB, I don't think Jeff has much to worry about. Now, selling them on is a bigger issue - that could certainly lead to trouble.

Rather than berating each other, you should be reporting the original seller - give their full name and address to USFW and Arizona's equivalent.

Regarding the toads themselves, at this point they should not be released because of potential spread of diseases they may have picked up since entering captivity. If they are confiscated, they will either be destroyed or given to another local keeper. No one wins.

Now please be civil.

Said like a true statesman John.
Let me get in the mud a little more, if I may.
I could care less if people agree or not, in fact a good healthy argument is a great way to learn things and share opinions. However, when you start shooting at each other and making threats, thats where the constructive conversation stops. None of this was necessary and if John hadn't seen this already there would be trouble here. Keep it civil so I don't have to get involved, this is a friendly forum and we all need to work to keep it that way!