New Colorado River Toads....(20!!!)

[Mordecai]

Oh we definitely intend to sell them. We are working on getting these guys nice and plump. We will grow them, keep logs on them, learn more about them, and then when they reach their full size, we will have them for sale.

[John]

He may be a good businessman but he certainly lied about the captive bred status of those toads.

[Mordecai]

Well you'd have to ask Jeff about that. I thought that before the toads arrived he said they were captive bred. In a email exchange between the guy and Jeff after the toads were delivered, I believe he said he wasn't claiming them to be cb. He is saying that he goes down and collects pairs during the breeding season once a year or something and harvests the eggs as well. But then again, you will have to double check with Jeff. I've just been so consumed with all the little guys, any other information goes in one ear and out the other!

I heard the first noises last night and dropped everything to run over and listen. I know they make two different calls; an advertisement call and a release call. I know it wasn't the advertisement call, but maybe the release? I'm not quite sure what the release call is for, all I know is anytime one toad would hop on another, the one on the bottom would make this (adorable) sound! So I thought that maybe "release" meant "let go"?? I could be totally wrong here. I only read a couple of paragraphs, before I ran back over to listen.

[Jeff Kennedy]

Yeah that was my bad for assuming things. When he told me how many he had and that he had raised the majority from eggs, I immediately made the assumption that they were captive bred. I was wrong. He collects them himself from areas of Arizona and New Mexico where it is legal and he HAS in fact raised the majority from eggs, however they were eggs that he collected as well. So I guess in a sense, they are captive bred. I'm happy that he's eager to make us happy and the next nine that he sends, are suppose to be flawless examples so we will see what they look like when they arrive.

[Deku]

Oh we definitely intend to sell them. We are working on getting these guys nice and plump. We will grow them, keep logs on them, learn more about them, and then when they reach their full size, we will have them for sale.

Nice. I hope you find good homes for them. Could I make one suggestion if I may?
Should you sell them, why not quizz the buyer about colorado river toads? Like ask them if they are educated and what they would do should they not want them anymore. Etc. Make them sign some sort of agreement that is legal? So they never get mistreated again. I wish you the best of luck raising these little guys. They look and sound adorable. If it was possible to hug a toad Id hug them. :P Then again I like to hug things guess Iam very weird.

[Jeff Kennedy]

Hey John,

Just purchased the panacur from a local vet. It is the canine form and contains (3) 1-gram packets. He advised that he thought this and the flagyl might be too harsh on them. I am concerned about the dosage. I know once a week for the next 2-3 weeks so is it ok to just dust the food items? I am concerned I could overmedicate if too much powder is on one bug or a particular frog eats too many bugs with it on there. Am I overreacting here?

[John]

He collects them himself from areas of Arizona and New Mexico where it is legal and he HAS in fact raised the majority from eggs, however they were eggs that he collected as well.

It is totally illegal to collect them in New Mexico, and it is only legal to collect a handful in Arizona under a state fishing license and under no circumstances can they be brought out of the state - that is illegal. Not only is that a violation of the state laws of Arizona and New Mexico, but it is a federal offense under the Lacey Act. USFW would love his contact information.

Just purchased the panacur from a local vet. It is the canine form and contains (3) 1-gram packets. He advised that he thought this and the flagyl might be too harsh on them. I am concerned about the dosage. I know once a week for the next 2-3 weeks so is it ok to just dust the food items? I am concerned I could overmedicate if too much powder is on one bug or a particular frog eats too many bugs with it on there. Am I overreacting here?

You need to dose them as I said earlier - 50 mg per kg of toad weight (so at a guess I would say 1-5 mg per toad, depending on their weights). Dose them by dusting food items. You definitely don't want to dose much more than this and you certainly don't want to under dose them.

[Jeff Kennedy]

That's interesting. Well like I said before, I was under the assumption that they were captive bred until after I received them. It was after receiving them that I learned how they was collected. I never had a need to check on individual state laws as I assumed that he wouldn't do anything that was illegal just to sell some toads. I'll pass that info on to him just to make sure that he is aware of it in the event that he goes out to collect in the future. So far our guys are responding well to treatment. We are just a couple of days in and have fattened them up significantly. We have got them to adjust to the dubia nicely and hopefully they will take to the panacur as well. Thanks for the info John!

[Morbidph8]

That's interesting. Well like I said before, I was under the assumption that they were captive bred until after I received them. It was after receiving them that I learned how they was collected. I never had a need to check on individual state laws as I assumed that he wouldn't do anything that was illegal just to sell some toads. I'll pass that info on to him just to make sure that he is aware of it in the event that he goes out to collect in the future. So far our guys are responding well to treatment. We are just a couple of days in and have fattened them up significantly. We have got them to adjust to the dubia nicely and hopefully they will take to the panacur as well. Thanks for the info John!

Hi ive been lurking for a while. It bugs me when people get wild caught Sonoran desert toads. While they may be found in CA, and NM. Most of the WC Colorado Toad come from Arizona. In AZ with a valid fishing license you can take a bag limit of certain wild amphibians. The law also states that AZ Native wildlife, cannot be sold, bought, or traded. They can only be given away. It's also against the law to take AZ Native wildlife outside of the state. Now Im not saying you guys did anything wrong. I live in AZ so it bugs me when I see kingsnake ads with sonorans for sale. Knowing they are illegaly been taken away from my state. Other than that. Your pics of your toads are great. Sonoran are one of my favorite toads. I currently have a Great Plaines toad I caught in my backyard. It's mansoon season now. Breeding season! Theres about 4 different toad species near me. I'm outside of the range for Sonorans though. I'm hoping I can find another Red Spotted Toad this year.

Sonoran Desert Toad (Incilius alvarius) - Amphibians of Arizona
Arizona Reptile/Amphibian Hunting Regulations
http://www.azgfd.gov/pdfs/h_f/regula...eAmphibian.pdf

[Jeff Kennedy]

We will be selling a small quantity of these in about a week. They have all been rehabilitated and treated for parasites. It has already cost us several hundred dollars in roaches and crickets to get these fella's back on track but it has been totally worth it. These are probably some of the most endearing frogs that I have ever owned. They act like dogs. It only took about a week for them to start recognizing me as a food source and now, every morning, they are lined up in front of there tanks waiting patiently for their turn to eat. We have (4) 20 gallon long tanks all in a row so you can imagine what this looks like. It is really going to be tough letting some of these guys go but we knew going in that we couldn't keep them all. So if you are interested, send me a PM and we can discuss the details. We are only releasing a select few at this time.

[Eel Noob]

Great pix and animals.

[Greg M]

I followed this thread with great interest since I would love to have a Colorado River/Sonoran desert toad. Jeff, did you get some help resolving this issue? I ask this out of genuine interest and not a desire to create any trouble.

[Rabbit87]

My boyfriend and I have 5 Colorodo River Toads that we got from Jeff a few months ago. They arrived in good health. They just needed some water and food, which was expected. They adapted to their new environment well and seemed very happy. Since then, we have done many changes. Our toads seem happier then ever. When we first got them we had thought about them possibly not being CB, but that did not stop us from keeping them or loving them. If we had not adopted them, someone somewhere would have and who knows if they would treat them as well as we do. We do not have any bad feelings about keeping our toads. We have them in a 75 gallon tank with a large water dish that they all fit into comfortably and a big half log for them to burrow under. They are all very healthy and getting big!

Ella- I was just wondering what substrate you are using for your toads? Once they got a little bigger, close to full grown did they start to eat less? Also, do your toads jump around the tank at their reflection in the glass or at the lid? Ours do. lol Its really funny and cute Well, hope your toads are doing great! Can't wait for your reply! Take care.

[Jeff Kennedy]

Hi Misty,

Thanks so much for the update and even more for the pics!!! When you sent the pics last night, Ella and I flipped through them a couple of times and just smiled. It makes us very happy to know that they are receiving the same TLC that they were receiving with us. The whole River Toad debacle has been an unfortunate chain of events for us, personally and financially. The silver lining in it is people like yourself whom have stepped up for the shear love of the species and given them a loving home. We are happy to say that the majority of the group have been adopted out to loving enthusiasts such as yourself whom will continue to offer the same care in which we were offering. As far as the eating habits, yes it will slow as they age but these guys always seem to be eager eaters. It is when they are full grown and less active that they will pack on those extra pounds and really start to become nice display pieces (in my opinion). As far as their zany behavior? Yes, that is just them being them. When it is feeding time, Ella and I will actually laugh out loud at the way in which they will smack each other in the face with their tongues if the other toad beats them to the cricket or roach. Keep up the good work and again, Thanks for loving them!

[Kurt]

It is totally illegal to collect them in New Mexico, and it is only legal to collect a handful in Arizona under a state fishing license and under no circumstances can they be brought out of the state - that is illegal. Not only is that a violation of the state laws of Arizona and New Mexico, but it is a federal offense under the Lacey Act. USFW would love his contact information.


You need to dose them as I said earlier - 50 mg per kg of toad weight (so at a guess I would say 1-5 mg per toad, depending on their weights). Dose them by dusting food items. You definitely don't want to dose much more than this and you certainly don't want to under dose them.

The problem with dusting is you run the risk of underdosing and producing drug resitance in the target parasite. The proper way to administer fenbendazole and metronidazole is orally and this can be done with a blunt-ended syringe, which you should be able to get from your vet. With both drugs there is a little bit of wiggle room in overdosing, so no worries unless you go nuts with dosing.

[Deku]

The problem with dusting is you run the risk of underdosing and producing drug resitance in the target parasite. The proper way to administer fenbendazole and metronidazole is orally and this can be done with a blunt-ended syringe, which you should be able to get from your vet. With both drugs there is a little bit of wiggle room in overdosing, so no worries unless you go nuts with dosing.

I was confused about the panacur when he mentioned it. Like what if he overdosed or underdosed? So it seems easier to do it by syringe.
Iam curious is there a way to treat for parasites with injections or something?

[Mordecai]

We like out toads fat! The river toads have done a 180 when it comes to eating dubias. They have adjusted very well to the gut loaded roaches and gobble them up as soon as they hit the ground. I think that after they became more acquainted with their surroundings and settled in, they feel much more comfortable eating.
The "hippies" (a tank with 6 extremely laid back toads) even line up when they see us walk by, anticipating the roach rainfall.





These guys are doing so great now, and we couldn't be happier!!!