Aquatic tank
I'm wanting to set up the tomatoes but I also want an aquatic tank. I think I can manage aquatic before I can get the tomato tank setup.
In hopes Petco does another tank sale, I want to get a 14 or 28 gallon biocube.
I would like to put 3-5 African dwarf frogs in there with a few fish. What suggestions do you guts have for peaceful fish that won't bother the frogs and that the frogs won't bother.
I want to set this up with real plants and a little natural looking.
I'm looking for any ideas.
Re: Aquatic tank
Here's my idea of a perfect aquatic setup. If I had this I wouldn't even need frogs.
Re: Aquatic tank
Ah! My specialty! Aquatics! Finally someone makes an aquatic topic. :P Anywho....
Ived kept alot of fish in my time and I still do. I have succesfully mixed and matched certain species of animals you wouldnt think its possible and have succesfully kept them.
When you are trying to mix animals you want to make sure you get both animals environment correct. Dwarf frogs like shallow water(1foot is a max) with plenty of plants. My suggestion is you either get fake plants or live plants. Make sure its leafy; this will allow the frogs to hang on the plants and rest. Just like a beta fish. I personally know you can keep them with a betta fish. You can keep them with SOME gouramis. You can keep them with tetras. But remember you are adding a group of 5 frogs in a 14gallon tank. Which means if filled up and you put ornaments in there what you really have is 5-10gallons of water. Which gives you a limited amount. Opt for a bigger tank and you have more choices. IF you only keep like 2-3 frogs you could keep a group of SMALL tetras. Remember one inch per scale of fish per gallon is a general rule. Also depends on the filter that you have. If you go for a larger tank like a 20long or a 30breeder you can have more fish. In a 20 long you could have 6 tetras and 5frogs. In a 30breeder you could have either:
6 tetras(Remember when k eeping tetras it should be NO less than 6 per group), 5 frogs and 2 SMALL gouramis(aka dwarfs)
Or you could keep 3 frogs 13tetras.
You get the picture? You COULD keep shrimp with them as long as they are ghost shrimps since if they get eaten you dont lose alot. Also they only live 2-4years at most(shrimp). African dwarf frogs can live anywhere from 5-10years. This is just an example of the fish you could keep. Remember:
1)Look at the frogs water parameters preferance and t he fish prefarance
2)Try to give space enough to not cause probs.
3)Make sure they are the same size or a little bigger.
Stay away from:
1)Large aggressive fish(cichlids, larger tetras aka piranhas, oddball fish, puffers)
2)Messy fish(goldfish, plecos, etc)
Hope this helps.
Personally when I had clawed frogs I kept them with larger gouramis, large corydoras, and faster fish. Gouramis are too big to swallow and corydoras are also too big. Anything too fast will bore them eventually. This is an example of what I did. Though you are keeping dwarfs so just keep smaller fish.
Re: Aquatic tank
From what I can gather, keeping fish with these frogs might mean that it'll be difficult to make sure the frogs get enough to eat, as the fish will likely eat the food first.
I'm not talking from experience, and may be mistaken, but this is the limited advice I can give you!
Some-one with experience will offer you better advice
Re: Aquatic tank
If you feed them both at the same time he shouldnt have a prob. Like feed flakes to the fish and feed sinking pellets to the frogs. But nah these frogs actually compete for food once they get acclimated to the tank.Originally Posted by Ken Worthington
From what I can gather, keeping fish with these frogs might mean that it'll be difficult to make sure the frogs get enough to eat, as the fish will likely eat the food first.
I'm not talking from experience, and may be mistaken, but this is the limited advice I can give you!
Some-one with experience will offer you better advice
I saw a YouTube video of a dwarf frog eating a betta, so I'm not sure if I go that route. If u opt for the 29 gallon biocube, would that be a better option? I may only include 3 frogs.
What species, if any would be best? After watching some videos, I definitely noticed they seem to stay on the bottom, which I questioned if just a shallow tank do?
I'm just doing my research now, as i want everything ready before adding anything. I really like the dwarf frogs, but is there any other aquatic species that would do well in either a 14 or 29 gallon biocube?
Or can I set up some sort of half and half tank? I would rather full aquatic. I miss having a tank set up. I really would like a few live plants in the tank.
Re: Aquatic tank
I remembered where I read about the potential feeding problem;
http://pipidae.net/adcf_food.php
Hope this helps
Re: Aquatic tank
If we are talking about the ONE inch african DWARF frog then I doubt that for the most part they would eat a betta. See "anything" can happen, but thats mainly if you dont feed the frog. A betta fish wont pose a threat to a dwarf since they eat very little. Again its just an observation I had made. A 29bio cube is actually pretty good. Depending on the dimensions that is. As long as its not taller than longer and wider. See when you get a tank for a frog you have to take under consideration these dimensions. If you got something like a 20high your frogs wont be happy. If you got a 20long they would do well and even not be aggressive towards each other. Though I highly doubt they are aggressive in the first place but Iam giving benefit of the doubt. Make sure you have alot of aquatic plants. Even if they are fake. Do you ever see those planted aquariums on youtube? The ones that have the bettas, tetras and so and so?
You can do that with your dwarf frog. This is why I love aquatic frogs. African clawed frogs also do well in planted aquariums. I suggest that if you want this to be succesfull provide proper hiding places for both the frog and the fish.
I suggest you add floating plants as well. Since the frogs eyes are upwards they tend to freak out if you put your hand on top of the tank(i know this for a fact). So when I had my clawed frogs they would 24% of the time hang around the floating plants.
Make sure if you get a good filter I would stick with a canister. Iam pro canisters because they help you with the necessities of keeping a tank clean. Which is what you want. You also want the bacteria to grow. when you get your tank set up.
You only need carbon for the first three days and when you are using medications(afterwards to clean up the meds) because carbon pretty much absorbs anything in the water; either good or bad. So all you need in your filter is bio balls(I prefer the macaronies since they have more space), phosphate remover(phosphate eats calcium which harms your frog), you could opt to add an "ammonia remover" I personally use it for my turtles but thats because they produce a LOT of ammonia. In any case if you add live plants they will serve as an ammonia and nitrite remover(the bad stuff).
But also if you have live plants you'd need CO2 diffuser for proper plant care and a proper plant light. In the end having plants(live) is worth it. Lets say your filter runs out or like there is a powerouttage. Your fish will be safe because the CO2 they produce through their gills will be eaten up by the plants meaning there will be more oxygen in the tank.
As for fish you can probably add with your frog are SOME live bearers(stay away from mollies they are a tad aggressive in my experience for dwares). You can add algea eaters but if there is no algea you will have to feed them algea disks. Again remember not to overload the tank with fish or else they will form an aggressive dispute.
Personally I prefer the schoalers(schools) because if you put them up in numbers they are stunning. I prefer the close schoolers. There are two types of schoolers the ones that are somwhat scattered and the ones that are close together like danios.
In my experience the danios I have delt with ussually schooled closely and sometimes they would spread out. You could also add shrimp NOT crayfish; shrimp eat any excess food. Should the frog want to eat a tank mate the ones they would eat first would be the shrimp. So its always good to buy the cheaper ones.
I would feed your frogs with tongs if possible to prevent anyone from not eating. Make sure the tongs are rounded.
On a side note danios like a bit cooler water but they also tolerate higher temperatures pretty well.
Its always good to add a tablespoon of aquarium salt to the tank. I find it that it helps keeps disease down. Its not a medication but it just "helps" i guess.
Also forgot to add fish to avoid:
-Barbs: Aggressive small fish that need to be in large schools to be peaceful.
-Crayfish:Predatory
-Clams: Will not survive due to the fact there is not enough food because the plants will eat it. They thrive in dirty water. Also the frogs may eat it.
-Puffer fish(dwarf) the cute little indian puffer fish is all tiny and petite it looks adorable. But this little guy can take out any inhabitant in the tank that is equal or two inches bigger than it. Puffers have teeth so don't underestimate them.
The video said act, so it may not have been the dwarf... not sure. I will try to find it tomorrow. I have seen the dwarfs living with small neon and the neons start to go missing.
The biocube has a filter in it I believe. I will check again tomorrow, but I swear I remember seeing one in it already.
I will get thw dimensions tomorrow as well... I think it was wider, like a normal 29 but rounded. I know I'm not too helpful right now, but I'm on my phone replying. Plus, I've enough computer for the day to look now.
Edit: measurements was bothering me. 29.8L x 19W x 20.1H for 29 gallon. And 13L x 13.6W x 12.4H for the 14 gallon. Wide is deep (front to back) right? I always get confused
I would definitely want a planted tank. Do you have any good suggestions as to plants or just anything aquatic?
I'm trying to get a list of everything so I have it all planned out.
If I were to do the 14 gallon, do you think just 2-3 frogs would be ok without fish?
Otherwise with the 29, what are the ratio numbers u suggest with fish that average 1-3 inches. I was thinking tetras of some sort. I've always found them fairly hardy.
Re: Aquatic tank
Most of the times when a frog eats a fish is because its hungry. So chances are the frog isnt getting fed. I think aquatic frogs should be fed daily. But not too much. Also thats a good tank size for 2-3frogs and some fish. Intank filters tend to suck. Trust me do not rely on it. Chances are it will suck. Plus filters with cartridges dont really hold in bacteria the good kind. So again Id go with a canister filter if I were you. just make some mods to the tank. Use sand its soft on their bellies, its clean and its also good for rooting plants.
Plants I have personally used:
-Anachris: all around best beginner plant.
-Anubias
-Duck weed: no one seriously cant kill duckweed unless that person is a dope around plants. There is no way you can kill it if you keep the tank nice and clean.
-Swords
-Moss balls: generally self efficient only need to be taken out of the tank and squeezed through running water to get any gunk out.(do not open the ball! just squeeze it once amonth underrunning water) it also provides a good sleeping area for the frogs.
-Ludwigia: somewhat like the anachris
-Baby's tears: not TOO easy to keep but not hard either. Its a matt of grass for the bottom.
Remember when laying out the plants obviously the small ones go infront and middle ranged ones in the middle and the leafy tall ones on the back. Remember to plant by segment but leave the very front of the tank free of plants(tall ones plants like babys tears is fine) this layout should be good.
Since you are afraid of putting in neon tetras why not go for black skirt tetras? They are alittle large(2-3inches at most). Id say a ratio of 3frogs to 10tetras should be fine. If you ever want to add a beta fish make sure not to add any fish with long flowing fins or very colorful as it will peez off the male beta. If you go for a beta you could go for a "king" beta. They are supposedly larger; which is true. Ived seen them grow up to 3inches(seriously). I think the crown tails look nice too.
You should also add some ghost shrimps. They only cost 6cents or so. You can get like 10-20 of them and it wont overload the bioload(their poop is smaller than a grain of rice. Actually its the size of a dot you make with a pencil. Also they eat excess food and should the frogs want to eat something alive they will most likely go to the shrimp which are also healthy foods.
Stuff you can feed your frogs are:
Sinking pellets(hikari is my favorite brand)
Live insects(actually healthy) such as crickets, grasshoppers, tiny earthworms, wax worms, pheonix worm, etc.
Pieces of fish(trout is the best fish to feed oh and silversides)
Remember to keep the diet varied for maximum health. Use tongs. Personally id try to feed them a little bit of everything. But then again I do that with everything I keep. :P
I've been reading, and it seems a filter can cause stress. Is this true? It said something about the vibrations causing stress on the frogs.
I'm leaning toward the 14 gallon with 3 frogs, 2 snails, and 1 betta. Will this be ok?
Will having live plants help any. What real benefit do they have.
it's been while since I've had an aquatic tank. I've always heard good things about live plants, but have always just done fake. The live seems easier.
You said use sand.. i read sand can be bad for these frogs due to impaction if ingested. If I use sand whats the impacting odds. I know with reptiles it's best to avoid for many reptiles. Just not sure about dwarf frogs. I would rather use sand or large pebbles. If sand is ok, can I just buy playsand from lowes? It's so much cheaper than small bags from the pet store
Re: Aquatic tank
I keep hearing about impaction too. But one thing to consider when under water sand passes very easily through the animals body or so is the case for my own animals. My turtle occassionally eats sand(purposely) to help with floatation problems he then ***** it out fine. Sides let me ask you. Where do these frogs come from? Where do all frogs come from? A lake, pond, stream, creek, etc. Yes. But what do they normally live on? SAND! It is natural and its soft on their bodies. Its easy to clean, and also good for promoting digging behaviour. Just about any aquatic life can benefit from sand. You are thinking about gravel. Fine sand passes through the body very easily. Only time it compacts is if its wet and its out of the water. But that is just my theory. Yes filter does do some "mental" problems with vibrations its why I suggested floating plants as well. If you deter it with alot of floating plants it should help keep the flow down. Its why I prefer canister filters. Also some frogs learn to adapt to an environment like that. but in the end a filter is the best. It is the best because to have a cycled tank you NEED a filter. It sucks up all the poop and produces oxygen through air contact and the bacterial growth in the filter.
Plants help with:
-Speeds up cycling
-Eats excess nitrates
-Eats ammonia(little) aka poop/urine
-Eats up co2 and turns it onto oxygen.
-Promotes natural breeding behaviours
-Gives a sense of security
-Is nice to look at.
Plants arent too easy to keep if you dont have the proper equipment. Like co2 diffuser and supplements.
But in the end its worth it. Your frogs will be happy, your fish will be happy and so will your snails.
Yes a 14gallon should be good for 2-3frogs, one betta fish and 2 snails.
Ived used sand for my turtles and they are fine-they're reptiles. I have now four turtles. Two painteds and two musk turtles. So no. Its not the sand.
Playsand contains traces of silica(I may be wrong) but last ived checked it does. So if I were you Id either buy a zoo meds sand bag(it can fill up a 55g's bottom its nice to look at, its fine and its 20-30bucks.) But in any case if you want to go to the cheaper route they do also sell natural sand at lowes or home depot. Just make sure its 100% natural. Also since its from lowes its not going to be clean. It will take a while to clean out the sand. I prefer the ones from zoo meds because its already cleaned out. You just need to rinse it out to take out the dust. Its also very fine(smaller grain) which is best. It means its softer, if consumed it will be easy to pass through. Also it doesnt need to be sifted like the larger sand which needs to be sifted every 2days(seriously). Again its my own preferance so you can buy the bags at lowes. I think the zoo meds bag is carried by some petsmart. I dont know about petco though. Its in a large red box. This box can fill up a 5gallon bucket to the top(literary).
Re: Aquatic tank
If I could add a couple of points....
Thoroughly rinsed commercial 'play-sand' is okay to use, and cheaper. (Deku, SiO2, is the main ingredient and is completely safe).
Live plants are such a good idea for a number of reasons;
Although they will absorb Oxygen and produce CO2 as they respire, they will provide Oxygen and absorb CO2 in an overall beneficial way when they have enough light to photosynthesize.
Plants will also absorb the three main Nitrogen compounds to various degrees, depending on the situation and plant-type.
Plants will provide a surface area in which beneficial bacteria can live.
Hardy plants such as Java fern, Java moss, Anubias, etc are hard to kill, and cheap.
You only need to even consider CO2 diffusers with more specialist plants.
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(@ Deku) With all due respect, but quote "It is the best because to have a cycled tank you NEED a filter." is not true! This is from a chemistry point of view....if a filter has a biological, mechanical, and chemical filtration system then it has nothing more than a well-balanced eco-system. The minus being that the vibration of a filter can stress the frogs (try putting your ear to the glass with it on, then off and hear the difference!) as is particularly noted in other aquatic frogs, such as Xenopus laevis, in captivity.
In addition, if I could mention that the number of offspring and frequency of breeding in the wild be taken into account when determining the risk of ingesting sand or things that may cause gastro-intestinal impaction. If two frogs can produce two healthy offspring that reach sexual-maturity, then in evolutionary terms, this is a success.
I'm sure more young frogs will die from predation, etc, than by impaction,but in captivity we eliminate the animals natural enemies, whether predatory or inanimate.
Re: Aquatic tank
There are a lot of aquatic plants that you do not need C02 for. There are many Aquascaping forums that you can google that will discuss the different types of plants you could use.
Re: Aquatic tank
I strongly doubt a frog will die from impaction when it comes to sand. Because if its "fine" sand it should pass through the frogs body very easy. Also larger rocks could pose as a hazard if the frog decideds to dash around and gets crushed. Gravel could get consumed and THAT will cause impaction for obvious reasons. I'ved never encounter any problem with sand. Also playsand is not thebest of sand who knows whats in it. Just saying Ived seen better options.
I can see where you say you dont need a filter to cycle a tank if you have plants but yes you do. Filters quickly remove physical waste and clean it up in a pad which can be later rinsed off. The space thats inside a filter ussually is teaming with good bacteria that eats ammonia and the other bad stuff. Overall its best to have a filter. Yes a filter can produce stress but if you find a way to slow down the current to a minimum and all vibrations in the water the animal should be happy still and the tank will be clean and throughly oxygenated.
Overall Iam pro filters as long as its canisters. This is why I said he should put in a ton of floating plants. Also to slow down the water he could make the water pour into a cup and then into the tank. Or he could cover the opening with a bit of a sponge which will slow thewater down significantly causing lesser vibrations.
You could cycle a tank without a filter but then you would need a fully planted tank. Also you would need to do more water changes which is a no no. Its why I said a filter is the best way to go.
Edit: also I cant tell whether your against or for my statement because you contradicted yourself. Where I said a filter is needed that is the truth sign up on some fish forums. But you then said it wasnt true and then after that you made a statement that contradicted that. "If a filter has mechanical, biological and chemical is there than it forms a well balanced eco system" yes thats pretty much saying what I just said. But in any case we cant replicated a perfect ecosystem. We just try.
Re: Aquatic tank
We have a 1 gal aquarium with gravel on the bottom and a couple of small rocks that came with the fisrt aquarium. it was about 5" by 5". It also had a bamboo plant sold in stores that is not real bamboo. We put the bamboo in the gravel stcking straight up. We have spider plant growing in water whic I did not transplant yet can we put in the top of the tank?
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