Cane Toad poison?

[Deku]

Actually I remember that show too about poisonous animals and it was on some type of dart frog.

I think its not the same one then. the cane toad poison topic is the one I was remembering.. I remember it. It had this blonde haired child. He was picking up a toad and almost going to put it to his mouth. you know that one? Where he was playing with his toys and then he picks up the toad? It also shows a clip of a dog bitting one. It explains about how it can kill a certain amount of humans in seconds from just a single drop of cane toad poison. But I dont think I saw dart frogs on that show

[bshmerlie]

No offense but I think you're mixing up information from two different shows. There was a show on the top ten most poisonous animals, which included some type of jellyfish, some type of scorpion, a stonefish, a funnel web spider, a blue ringed octopus, a taipan snake, a cone snail, and a DART FROG. There was a couple of other animals which I can't recall but it was NOT a cane toad. Which is why when you state information that you are uncertain of as FACT it bugs the @#%* of of me and is not always helpful to the person who is asking the question.

[Deku]

No offense but I think you're mixing up information from two different shows. There was a show on the top ten most poisonous animals, which included some type of jellyfish, some type of scorpion, a stonefish, a funnel web spider, a blue ringed octopus, a taipan snake, a cone snail, and a DART FROG. There was a couple of other animals which I can't recall but it was NOT a cane toad. Which is why when you state information that you are uncertain of as FACT it bugs the @#%* of of me and is not always helpful to the person who is asking the question.

I never said it was a fact. Its not information that is life or death or is reguarding the life of an animal so you shouldnt be extremely upset about it. Secondly I said I had a foggy mind so I might have mixed shows. But I do remember watching a program on animal planet about poisenous animals what I remember most was it talking about cane toads.
Correction I said adults are toxic which is true.

[SethD]

It explains about how it can kill a certain amount of humans in seconds from just a single drop of cane toad poison.

I don't know if you actually heard that somewhere or not but I am absolutely sure that a single drop of cane toad poison is not going to kill anyone in seconds, let alone multiple people. Might make you sick, but isn't going to kill you in "seconds". There are very few poisons that act that fast, even ones that are usually fatal aren't usually that quick. The few that are act on the nervous system.

I never said it was a fact. Its not information that is life or death or is reguarding the life of an animal so you shouldnt be extremely upset about it.

It is just that you do an awful lot of this and it gets really old to me and I guess others as well. Though I haven't said anything you have at least three or four posts or threads just in the past day or two where you give advice or make statements that are really inaccurate, ill advised, or off the wall. Like that thread you made recently about how to save a drowning toad. That seems to be about the norm. Generally speaking if you don't know for sure that a statement is accurate and that your advice is good it is better not to say it or at least make very sure that everyone knows that it may or may not be true.

[Deku]

I don't know if you actually heard that somewhere or not but I am absolutely sure that a single drop of cane toad poison is not going to kill anyone in seconds, let alone multiple people. Might make you sick, but isn't going to kill you in "seconds". There are very few poisons that act that fast, even ones that are usually fatal aren't usually that quick. The few that are act on the nervous system.




It is just that you do an awful lot of this and it gets really old to me and I guess others as well. Though I haven't said anything you have at least three or four posts or threads just in the past day or two where you give advice or make statements that are really inaccurate, ill advised, or off the wall. Like that thread you made recently about how to save a drowning toad. That seems to be about the norm. Generally speaking if you don't know for sure that a statement is accurate and that your advice is good it is better not to say it or at least make very sure that everyone knows that it may or may not be true.

yeah thats why the american toad didnt die. If I make a post that is wrong people correct me right there and thats about it. Theres no reason to start an arguement or even get mad. In general I havent been able to provide links for a few reasons which I constantly stated. In any case this is what a forum is for. To discuss and debate about issues and information and learn. Is it not? Nobody here is an expert well maybe kurt or john. Kurt worked or works with reptiles and amphibians and I dont know about john but Iam sure hes very savvy about it by now. Its called a discussion.Also never said it was through the skin now did I?

[SethD]

yeah thats why the american toad didnt die.

Well, I am 99% sure the toad would have been fine without the treatment. I have seen a lot of half drowned frogs and toads in pools, buckets, etc. Sometimes they have absorbed so much water that they are visibly bloated and can barely move. If they aren't dead though after a few hours they nearly always recover with no treatment at all.

[Deku]

Well, I am 99% sure the toad would have been fine without the treatment. I have seen a lot of half drowned frogs and toads in pools, buckets, etc. Sometimes they have absorbed so much water that they are visibly bloated and can barely move. If they aren't dead though after a few hours they nearly always recover with no treatment at all.

Someone else had success with this too. It didnt hurt the toad so its not a bad thing to try. The toad isnt scared stiff of me. It also eats well. It just ate 4 medium crickets. the toad wasnt floating when I found it. It had sunk to the bottom. In any case I found it to be helpful for myself. And I thought if someone had the same problem it would them.

[Kurt]

Nobody here is an expert well maybe kurt or john. Kurt worked or works with reptiles and amphibians and I dont know about john but Iam sure hes very savvy about it by now.

Actually, there are quite a few people I consider experts, Seth and Terry imediately come to mind. As does Paul. I hope I am not forgetting anybody, I know I am. Sorry if I am.

By the way its the irukandji box jellyfish, Carukia barnesi.

Kevin, whenever you make a statement be prepared to back it up with a reliable source, kind of like having a bibliography. Animal Planet is not a reliable source. I have come quite a few mistakes and misinformation on that channel.

[Deku]

Actually, there are quite a few people I consider experts, Seth and Terry imediately come to mind. As does Paul. I hope I am not forgetting anybody, I know I am. Sorry if I am.

By the way its the irukandji box jellyfish, Carukia barnesi.

Kevin, whenever you make a statement be prepared to back it up with a reliable source, kind of like having a bibliography. Animal Planet is not a reliable source. I have come quite a few mistakes and misinformation on that channel.

Sorry whenever I post something my sources tend to be either from 3 websites that I go to, animal planet or an assortment of books that I have. I have over 20(Id say around 23)Frogs and toad books now, over 15fish books, 5 Plant books(some aquatic plants and some terrestrials),13 Snake books(I was given 5extra last saturday), 8 books on invertebrates, and 4 guide books on animals of north america, also 2books about the body structure of animals(they are scattered though). So whenever I say "I remember reading somewhere" or "I read somewhere" is either from reading on a website or from those books. Ill just wait till I get my computer to make any posts that are ment as a statement. Though ussually I try not making it as a statement to avoid any conflict which is why I use the said "I think" or "in my personal" or "in my opinion" because then its a thought not a fact. You know? Which doesntmake it something to be challenged. I just wish I remember where I saw that fact(show). It somewhat is getting me flustered. Though I must say I love their shows which is why I like making comments with animal planet referances. I also watch nat geo, planet green(sometimes), and a few other nature channels. I guess I just want to learn as much as I can. Mmm experts from this site in my opinion is mainly you, john, jo-anna(bullfrog expert), julia(she obviously knows her stuff), and the mods that normally answer me. I forgot the name of this one mod that likes to joke around. Whats his name?? He had the icon of a hospital sign on his picture. hes a mod. Well I dont remember his name but I think hes an expert too. The rest of us are just trying to learn I guess. :P

Ps what is a reliable source in your opinion? Id like to learn what Iam right and wrong on so I should read that up.

[Rat The Unloved]

Protip from the peanut gallery: If you think you know something about a topic, and opt to post about it anywhere on the internet, or speak about it with friends, try looking it up first! I'm extremely educated on some topics and I still do a quick "refresher" just to make sure something new hasn't come up since the last time I researched.

Animal Planet is NOT a reliable source of information, I've heard them say pitcher plants can dissolve a human hand. Sure, if you cut it off, cut it up into small bits, and put a small bit in each pitcher. For that matter, most TV is a poor idea for obtaining one's "facts".

From a few minutes of web searching I found out that Bufotoxin (a cocktail of various chemicals), the "milk" secreted by toad glands is primarily a cardiotoxin, with effects similar to digitalis/foxglove toxins.

The LD50 (LD50 is the measurement at which half of the test subjects died. I.e. "Lethal Dose in 50%") of these chemicals are not clearly listed in most places - I found an LD50 list concerning test felines. Others are norepinephrine and seratonin. ETA: The LD50 article may or may not mention recreational drug use. I didn't read it very closely. I DO NOT support such activities, but it was the only source I could find for the LD50 of the toxin.

One of the constituents of -some- toad milk is Bufotenin, Aka 5-OH-DMT - being a schedule 1 psychoactive compound with a LD50 around 200mg/kg.

NONE of these constituent chemicals will kill in seconds, or even particularly quickly in the doses found in even a single large frog. You'd die of cardiac arrest, which takes some time... er... as morbid as that is.

Now, from someone experienced with dealing with toxic, vicious, kill-you-if-you-eat-them-or-even-offend-their-sensibilities-too-hard plants (including digitalis) - the best safe handling is as follows:

Wear gloves. Unpowdered "latex alternative" gloves preferable. Wear eye protection. I suggest some stylish shop glasses. Keep your mouth closed, or averted when handling the animal. Scrub down thoroughly post-handling. If you get toxin in your mouth or eye, get the hell to an ER. If your pet eats it - well... that's up to you. I strongly suggest trying an animal emergency clinic.

But, in answer to the OP's question: Wash your hands after handling and there should be no issue of transfer, or better yet - gloves. It would have to bite or menace the toad, one-on-one to be in danger.

[SethD]

The LD50 (LD50 is the measurement at which half of the test subjects died. I.e. "Lethal Dose in 50%") of these chemicals are not clearly listed in most places - I found an LD50 list concerning test felines. Others are norepinephrine and seratonin. ETA: The LD50 article may or may not mention recreational drug use. I didn't read it very closely. I DO NOT support such activities, but it was the only source I could find for the LD50 of the toxin.

Thanks for the link, an interesting read. I found it interesting that the percentages of fatal poisoning in pets reportedly varied so much depending on the area the cane toad was from. High death rates in pets mouthing florida canes, low death rates from south texas canes, and about 5% death rate from canes in Hawaii. Makes me wonder if the difference is due to limited data, dietary differences or slightly different types of poisons due to genetic differences in populations.

Now, from someone experienced with dealing with toxic, vicious, kill-you-if-you-eat-them-or-even-offend-their-sensibilities-too-hard plants (including digitalis) - the best safe handling is as follows:

Wear gloves. Unpowdered "latex alternative" gloves preferable. Wear eye protection. I suggest some stylish shop glasses. Keep your mouth closed, or averted when handling the animal. Scrub down thoroughly post-handling. If you get toxin in your mouth or eye, get the hell to an ER. If your pet eats it - well... that's up to you. I strongly suggest trying an animal emergency clinic.

Fortunately toads aren't as dangerous as "kill-you-if-you-eat-them-or-even-offend-their-sensibilities-too-hard plants" if your just handling them. Most keepers don't use gloves and I haven't heard of anyone dying or even getting sick from it yet. At various times I have had toad venom on my bare skin(taking wild toads away from dogs and cats as well as dealing with stressed captive specimens) and it didn't even burn. Of course if you got it in you mouth or eyes it wouldn't do you any good but I don't think it tends to be readily absorbed through the skin.

[Rat The Unloved]

I found it interesting that the percentages of fatal poisoning in pets reportedly varied so much depending on the area the cane toad was from.

It may be something as simple as threat-level. Florida would be an area with higher numbers of natural, and introduced, predators capable of the brassy nature of a committed attack. It's a theory.

Fortunately toads aren't as dangerous as "kill-you-if-you-eat-them-or-even-offend-their-sensibilities-too-hard plants" if your just handling them.

I always try to err on the side of caution. I've handled plants and animals that should not have caused me trouble, but did. So unless I'm really, really, familiar with the individual specimen - it's gloves.

[SethD]

I always try to err on the side of caution. I've handled plants and animals that should not have caused me trouble, but did. So unless I'm really, really, familiar with the individual specimen - it's gloves.

Well nothing wrong with that, I tend to take precautions based on perceived threat level most of the time but there is nothing wrong with being extra careful if one is not certain.