Weird mouth ridge?

[SPizzi]

Hi everyone!

New here, but I've been reading a ton of the different threads.

Looking for some advice! Not sure if I am just a paranoid new-frog owner, or if there is an actual cause for concern.

The store I got him from said they received him in the store on Thursday, March 08, and that he had eaten crickets once in the store (they did not specify how many).

I brought my Pacman Frog home on Sunday, March 11, and have had him for 10 days now. He is about 2 inches long, and 2 inches wide. Eyes are clear, he is alert, really enjoys wiggling into his substrate.

When I initially brought him home that Sunday (March 11), I noticed that he has this yellow ridge on his bottom jaw, that is often showing (maybe his teeth?). His mouth does close more fully than in the pictures below, and sometimes this yellow ridge is less visible. I have seen him open and close his mouth, and he appears to be able to do so without any struggle. His mouth feels firm, not soft. I did not offer him food his first few days in my home to let him acclimate to his new tank/environment.

However, he has only eaten 1 pinhead sized cricket since I brought him home, (this was on Tuesday, March 13), and has not been interested in food since. He didn't have the best aim when I did feed him on March 13, and seemingly got discouraged fast. He was fed in a separate critter keeper (that was misted, had light substrate on the bottom, and an UTH mounted on the side for warmth).

After I fed him on Tuesday March 13 until Friday March 16 he completely buried himself under his substrate in his tank, and emerged again on Saturday, March 17. On March 17 I also took him out and offered him food again in the critter keeper under the same conditions as the previous attempt. He didn't go for the crickets, so I also tried Dubia Roaches + Night Crawlers + a horn worm. He was not interested in either. When the horn worm got close, he brushed it away from him and turned his back to the worm, facing the corner of the critter keeper.

Starting Sunday March 17 I tried offering him food in his own tank (once daily, every day since) because I didn't want to stress him out from handling him too much/moving him to the separate critter keeper...but also wanted to try and get him to eat while he is awake! I tried night crawlers + a horn worm in his own tank, but he had 0 interest and would physically turn away from the worm when I tickled his mouth with it, or dangled it in front of him. Finally, I left a horn worm in front of him, hoping that if I left the room for a while he may eat it. He did not.

Some questions I'm looking for advice on:

1. Has anyone seen this yellow-mouth-ridge situation before?
2. Any other tips to help get him to eat? (I've tried tickling his mouth with the worm, leaving him alone with the food in his tank, feeding him in a separate critter keeper, and offering food in the morning vs. night)
3. Since he hasn't pooped either (unless he's buried it?) I am debating soaking him in warm water. I've read that sometimes a good soak+poop will help them get back on a normal feeding schedule, but I don't want to stress the lil guy too much in his first 2 weeks. When I did handle him, I didn't feel hard lumps in his side that would indicate impaction.

I know it can sometimes take 1-3 weeks for them to acclimate to a new environment, so I don't want to jump to conclusions and risk stressing him more by rushing him to a vet if this is just part of him acclimating. Pics below for reference + additional information underneath the photos!




Additional info:
1. Size of enclosure: 12x12x12 -
2. Pacman is only frog in enclosure
3. 70-75% humidity on average, misted 2-3x daily
4. 77 on colder side of tank, 80 on the warmer side (consistent throughout day/night)
5. Mist using water that I dechlorinate using TetraFauna AquaSafe Water Conditioner for Reptiles & Amphibians - use this same water in his water dish (which he hasn't touched yet)
6. Substrage: Eco Earth Loose Coco Fiber
7. Soaked all enclosure accessories in hot water before adding them into tank - Large (shallow) water dish, a cave to hide in, and silk vines on the back wall for extra coverage
8. Main food source: He ate 1 pinhead cricket on the 3rd day I had him (3/13), but has not eaten since. Offered night crawlers, Dubia Roaches, and Horn Worms, as well. Ideally, I'd like night crawlers to be the main food source, with dubias to supplement and horn worms as treats.
9. Vitamins: Repti-cal Calcium and D3 coated insects - have done this every time I have tried to feed him.
10. Lighting: He has an LED light above his tank for photo-cycles
11. Heat: Under Tank Heater mounted on back wall + left side of tank (opposite water dish) (covering 2 walls so he cannot see out of them - the 3rd wall is covered by the bookshelf wall he is on)
12. Last ate: Tuesday 3/13
13. Have you found poop lately: Not in the 10 days I've had him
14. (pictures above)
15. Symptoms/Physical Changes: Other than the yellow ridge in his mouth, he otherwise looks fine. No hard lumps, His mouth closes, but sometimes it will appear to be partly open (and I will see the yellow ridge in the picture), but I don't see his tongue/inside his mouth. He doesn't appear to be bloated, no weird leg movements, his underside is white and appears normal.
16. Age: Not sure how old, but he is 2 inches long, and about 2 inches wide.
17. How long have you owned him/her: 10 days
18. Is the frog wild caught or captive bred: captive
19. Frog food: Noted in #8, but he has not eaten yet aside from the 1 pinhead cricket. Ideally I'd like to have him on a main diet of night crawlers with a horn worm as an occasional treat.
20. How often the frog is handled: once on Sunday 3/11 when I brought him home, once on Tuesday 3/13 when I tried to feed him in his critter keeper, once on Saturday 3/17 to try feeding in the critter keeper again. Have since tried feeding him in his tank.
21. Is the enclosure kept in a high or low traffic area: Low traffic - at night we watch TV in the same room for about 3 hours, but during the day we are at work so it's pretty quiet.
22. Describe enclosure maintenance (water changes, cleaning, etc): Changing water every other day, looking for poop (haven't seen it) to spot clean. I plan to do a complete tank clean every 3 weeks.

[SPizzi]

Additional photo from today (when I came back after leaving him with a horn worm to try and get him to eat!)

[Bynny Ribbit]

Hey there! Welcome to frog ownership!

All the info looks pretty good, I would just recommend bumping up the warmer side heat to 85ºF. It's okay if he isn't using his water dish a lot, it just means he's getting his water from the substrate/humidity.

For his mouth ridge, it's hard to say what it could be. Sometimes leaving their mouth open means there's a respiratory issue or injury/growth in the mouth or jaw. Do you know if was receiving calcium with D3 before you bought him? Because MBD can be another reason why he'd turn away food and maybe explain him not closing his mouth fully all the time. Only an exotics vet can truly figure out the likely cause, otherwise it's only guessing until more symptoms possibly appear. The color of his mouth ridge is completely normal, pretty sure most Pacman breeds have yellow inner ridges like this.

He could also still be stressed. When you think about it, if he only just arrived at the pet store a few days before you bought him, he never had time to settle in before going to a whole new place again, so that may be a factor. To help him perk up, you can buy some unflavored Pedialyte and make a 1 part Pedialyte/10 parts treated water solution to soak him in. This can help him replenish his electrolytes and hopefully stimulate his appetite. Make sure the water is nice and warm, not only for his comfort, but to maybe get him to poop (which might also encourage him to eat).

As for feeding technique, horned frogs can be so finicky about their food. It took my friend a month to get her little guy to eat; he only wanted to eat in a container outside of his tank, and you had to insistently press the food to his mouth to the point of pestering him with it. Are you feeding him with tongs? If you don't have some already, I would recommend bamboo/wooden ones since Pacmans love to clamp down on them and metal ones could cause an injury. They can be super clumsy eaters, so this also helps prevent them from eating too much substrate and then they don't get so discouraged from missing so much. But yeah, some people drag the food across their front feet, drop it in from above, tickle it under their chin...it's definitely a lot of trial and error to find what works for your frog. It seems like you've tried a few things already, so hopefully you can find something which works.

Hopefully this was helpful and not too rambly. I've only had my Pacman for 7 months so a lot of this is experience or what I gleaned from this forum, someone else with more experience may be more helpful.

[Lija]

Lol paranoid new frog owner is much better than not caring one

beautiful frog by the way!

everything seems to be spot on, except - how is your tank looks like, it’s too open? You need to have stuff in there, perhaps hanging plants that could create hide of sorts, cover 3 sides of a tank.

food. Pinheads crickets are nothing other nuisance for 2” frog, not something worth waiting time nor effort for. You need at least 3weeks ones, perhaps 4weeks. General rule - the length of the food should be about the distance between his eyes for crickets/roaches. If he used to crickets - that’s what you should be giving now. Forget about worms, proper nutrition, soaks for now. You can do it later when he is eating, just drop a few crickets in a tank, if they are not eaten, take them out.

I suggest you do the following. Leave the guy alone, do not touch, do not anything, you can spray even without opening the tank, do not move the tank as well. After a day or two drop a few crickets ( not pinheads ) see how it’ll go.
Good luck

[SPizzi]

Thanks @Lija!

I do have 3 sides of the tank covered (2 with a black heat mat, and one side is up against a bookshelf wall) so he can only see out of the front. In the pictures above, he's actually up against a cave I have in there for him, and there are some leafy vines on the back wall covering part of the ground, too! He hasn't really explored any other areas of his tank so far though. He just made a little nest where I plopped him in the tank, and he will bury himself and uncover himself throughout the day/night.

I'll try your advice for the next few days! Grab some larger crickets and see if he'll eat some in a day or two.

[SPizzi]

@BynnyRibbit - thank you! Any personal experience is helpful
I'm not sure if they were giving him calcium/D3 before I got him, but I am going to end up making a vet appointment this upcoming week just to get him checked out either way. His mouth isn't droopy like in some of the pictures I've seen of frogs with MBD, which makes me wonder if it may actually be respiratory. Either way, better be safe than sorry!

He was in a smaller container when I got him, so I have a feeling that's what he was fed in, too. I'm giving him a few days without pushing worms in his face, so my next plan is to get some larger crickets + a smaller critter keeper so he feels more secure and testing that out.