Tiger-legged frog sick, possible bacterial infection. New Frog!

[Heuchera]

Hi all. I started another thread a few days ago http://www.frogforum.net/showthread.php/38354-Tiger-legged-monkey-Frog-acclimation-process <---- where I thought my frog was just acclimating and was otherwise healthy. Now, after 3 days of not eating, I'm getting worried. He also has a bump on his back that is seemingly getting worse. Here are the questions so you know all there is to know about my tank. First, here are photos of the horrendous bumps on his skin. I'm probably going to try and get some anti-bacterial stuff today. Does anyone have suggestions for emergency topical things I can apply? (I will also be doing research to find out)

QUESTIONS

1----what 'kind' of frog is it Pithecopus hypochondrialis

2----please include a photo of the frog

3----Please include a photo of the frog's current enclosure ( Above)

4----size of enclosure ( 12" x 12" x 18" )
5----# on inhabitants - ( if there is another frog --- is there a size difference ? ) -No other frogs
6----has or was the frog kept with a different species or with any other tank mate - Unknown, brand new frog purchased at reptile expo.
7----is there a new tank mate----was the new tank mate quarantined - No tank makes, frog was placed into tank straight away.
8----what is the typical humidity level - 70-80%
9----what temperature is maintained - 72-78
10---what is, specifically, being used to maintain the temperature of the enclosure - 13W reptiglo light (10 hrs a day) + 2 (5" x 9") zoomed heating pads on one side of enclosure on 24hrs.
11---describe the enclosure lighting ( very specifically) 13W Reptiglow light with UVB placed directly on screen mesh top with no plastic covering light.
12---describe enclosure maintenance ( water changes, cleaning etc) Water changes Daily, wash with tap, then spray with distilled/dried and filled with distilled water.
13---what kind of water is used Distilled only
-----for misting ^
-----for the frog's soaking dish ^
-----is de-chlorinator used / what brand No dechlorinator, though I have prime but would research beforehand.
14---material(s) used for substrate - be very specific - ABG substrate for vivariums, picked up at local reptile expo 6 months ago.
15---enclosure set up:
-----if recent - describe how the enclosure was cleaned - Has not been cleaned
-----plants( live or artificial) if artificial plants are used are they plastic or fabric Live plants (just added fake foam vine however)
-----describe wood, bark , and background materials Cork Bark
16---when is the last time the frog ate - Sunday - brought him home and he ate one 1/3" cricket from steel tongs
17---have you found poop lately- Have not seen any poop in the enclosure.
18---how often is the frog fed - Attempting to feed nightly via deli cup. Have also attempted tong feeding (no interest/seemed annoyed)
19---what size feeder is given -1/4" crickets
20---what other feeders are used as treats No treats given yet
21---what is the frog's main food source Crickets (ideally)
22---do feeders roam free in the enclosure or is the frog bowl fed- was bowl fed, this morning released 4 into enclosure.
23---vitamins - what brand and how often Haven't had him long enough.
24---calcium - what brand and how often Havent had him long enough.
25---was the frog without calcium for any period of time Yes, since sunday while I ordered his vitamins.
26---approximate age of the frogUnknown
27---how long have you owned the frog 4 days
28---who cared for the frog before you Reptile Kingdom LLC - The Vendor
29---is the frog wild caught or captive bred Unknown
30---how often the frog is handled -- are gloves used ( what kind of gloves) Frog has been handled 3 times over the course of 4 days. Each time hands were washed, dried, then sprayed with distilled water
31---is the enclosure kept in a high or low traffic area High-ish traffic. It is in the same room as my computer, but I do not blast music or make a ruckus lol.
30---has or was the frog properly quarantined (yes or no) No
-----for how long
32---has the frog been treated with any medication No
-----for what
-----name of medication
-----for how long
-----what dose
-----was medication prescribed by a herp vet



Hopefully this all helps. :'(

[Heuchera]

So I took my frog to the vet today and got a few pieces of advice:

Likely he is still acclimating, and is also dehydrated due to the fact that I was putting distilled water in his bowl. Ack!


They've given me a mix of some electrolyte-based liquids to hopefully set him on the proper road to recovery, and then ideally he'll get his appetite back.

In the meantime, if anyone has any suggestions for plants, or ways to make this vivarium feel more comfortable for him, i'll be slowly introducing more plants as he settles in down the line. I'll also be giving it an extra layer of clay underneath for proper drainage and a place for the bacteria.

Also, I've been trying to research basic care for tree frogs (core things to avoid, like the distilled water thing!) I am more than open to suggestions!

[elly]

Oh man, I wish I'd asked about what kind of water you were using. Or taken a close look at the "trouble in the terrarium" post. I'm very glad you found a vet.

As far as plants go, anything tropical that is short and can withstand soggy soil and dim light from a hydroponic light works. Tropical houseplants are good.

But before you go into plants, it would be a good idea to put down LECA or aquarium gravel or something as a drainage layer. You're right about that. I don't think clay would allow much drainage, unless you meant clay balls.

There's a whole thread on making a live plant vivarium in the Terrariums section. That route means you won't have to change the substrate at all unless the frog gets sick. You might have to take the frog poop out, but with the plant roots and drainage the pee will break down and won't turn into ammonia.

Or if you just want plants you could put potted plants into the substrate and change the dirt every couple of months or so.

[Heuchera]

Its completely okay! I read a lot of care sheets (and though I hate blaming) this is the only one that mentioned a water type, so I followed their directions....http://www.joshsfrogs.com/catalog/bl...pochondrialis/ of course, I am really pissed to find out that its completely false info (at least regarding water).

I already ordered some hydroton, which are the clay balls you were referring to. =) They came recommended from a new friend who keeps darts, so i'm hopeful these will work in his terrarium. I plan to disassemble it tomorrow and perhaps wash some of the surfaces. I've heard bacteria can build up if there isnt enough drainage, and im realizing now that can affect him as well.

I have isopods and springtails in the soil already so hopefully after the clay is added it will be all set. =) I really appreciate your replies and feedback. I feel like I stepped into deep water with this little one and the back and forth gives me sanity haha.

[elly]

Heh, no worries, it seems like you have a good idea what to do now.

Distilled water can be used in spray bottles. Lots of people do that because it doesn't leave buildup on the glass. I notice that elsewhere Josh's frogs recommends "conditioning" the water, that is, putting electrolytes and minerals into the distilled water. That seems like a little extra work, but some people have bad enough tap water they want to do that.

With an amphibian's porous skin, distilled water can draw minerals out of them. This is the article I always direct people to about distilled water.

Like I said, though, it seems like you've got a handle on what to do, hope your frog feels better and starts eating soon.

[Heuchera]

Ahh I see! I misread the information then. It was confusing because before I actually got a frog...I would go to josh's frogs to ogle at vivarium supplies and plants, so in my head they were a good source of information. I'm glad its still true. =) Thanks for linking the article! It's precisely what the vet said. I knew that amphibians had porous skin, but I just....wasn't even thinking about how empty distilled water is.

I will update once he starts feeling better!

[Heuchera]

Alrighty...update time.

So, the heat/humidity index has been perfect for the last few days. 78-80 during the day, and 75 slowly going down to 72 degrees by morning. Humidity hovers around 50-60% throughout the entire day.

Yesterday: I purchased a fruit fly culture (D. hydei) and planned on releasing them an hour before lights out. However, at that time I saw that my little guy had gone from his deep shade spot to sleeping out in the light. I freaked out a little bit and thought maybe he was stressed, so I let him sit there for about 15 minutes and then ended up shutting the lights off two hours early. Threw the flies in and a deli cup with two dusted crickets. He ended up sleeping in the same spot with the lights off and I went to bed around 10pm, 4 hours later.

Today: No crickets eaten, unsure about if he ate FF. Couldn't find him, checked underneath his outer fabric shades, no luck, but wasn't worried. About two hours later, lifted up one of the shades to see him trying to sleep in the dirt near the rear end of the tank, thought that was extremely odd behavior but didnt both him. Now I check on him again, once more 2 hours before lights out, and he's awake (?) out in the light again! Could he be searching for fruit flies, or is this a really, really bad sign?

I'm attaching a picture. He hasnt eaten since sunday and does look thin, but is no longer the dark brown/green he was before. Unfortunately I couldn't get a good look at the spots on his head. I'm refusing to interfere since I know being a helicopter mom is *not* what he wants in his life.




Edit: I am sad to report that my poor little guy took his last breaths. I looked more closely and realized he was barely hanging on, and so I placed him his very shallow water dish, 10 minutes later his body tensed up, his legs curled and I knew he was gone. :'( I am really, really upset.


Was it the distilled water? The stress? a bacterial infection? What could have taken him so quickly? It's so upsetting; I thought my environment was acceptable, but perhaps that was the culprit. I don't know that I will jump into having a frog for a while, not until I can guarantee that every iota of its environment is correct. So sad...

[Heuchera]

I am posing pictures of his face so folks can see the spots. This was well after he passed away.



I hate to say it...but I did handle him with bare hands after he passed away and, though thoroughly washing my hands at every point in time, now have a paranoia that if he did have a very extreme case of flesh-eating bacteria, if that could potentially harm myself. Ugh....this is just all so stressful.

[elly]

I'm sorry.
If it helps, frog skin is very delicate and it's unlikely your skin would be as easily infected. Especially if you washed your hands.