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Thread: Pyxicephalus Differences

  1. #61
    Moderator tgampper's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pyxicephalus Differences

    Hi Jeff:

    Thanks for all your hard work. I do have a copy of du Preez and Carruthers book that was mentioned in your last post. Other than clearing up the obbianus situation, I think we have all the info we need to put the guide together.

    I was interested in Dr. Cunningham's explanation that its not too difficult to tell the difference between the species, so why all of this discussion

    I wonder if these "unknown" species are obbianus or some new species making its way into the pet trade? I know obbianus has a small range and only found in Somalia, but evidently has a stable population.

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  3. #62
    Malachi
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    Default Pyxicephalus Differences

    Possible that edulis in South Africa look different than the "Tanzanian" edulis?

    Angola, Botswana, Kenya, Malawi, Mozambique, Namibia, Swaziland, Tanzania, Zambia, Zimbabwe, and Democratic Republic of the Congo.
    How well are these frogs documented in the countries above? I am sure people in those countries would love to sell frogs to us under any name

    So in south Africa there are two easy to distinguish frogs, but now pyxies from other regions are being sold either as the giant or dwarf.

  4. #63
    Moderator tgampper's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pyxicephalus Differences

    Quote Originally Posted by Malachi View Post
    Possible that edulis in South Africa look different than the "Tanzanian" edulis?
    It is quite possible that there are color morphs among different population groups, so what may be distinctively different in South Africa are more similar elsewhere.

    Quote Originally Posted by Malachi View Post
    Angola, Botswana, Kenya, Malawi, Mozambique, Namibia, Swaziland, Tanzania, Zambia, Zimbabwe, and Democratic Republic of the Congo. How well are these frogs documented in the countries above? I am sure people in those countries would love to sell frogs to us under any name
    I think for the most part, the genus Pyxicepahalus is well documented, especially adspersus and edulis (obbianus is another story). P. edulis has two discontinuous ranges: the eastern range overlaps that of adspersus and its western range is also discontinuous: Nigeria, Senegal and Mauritania. I really like the picture of P. edulis in Roedel's book, looks a lot different than in other books.

    Quote Originally Posted by Malachi View Post
    So in south Africa there are two easy to distinguish frogs, but now pyxies from other regions are being sold either as the giant or dwarf.
    Roedel, du Preez, Channing, and Carruthers has done a great job in describing the species, however, the name "pyxie" refers to frogs in the genera Pyxicepahalus and Tomopterna. Here in the U.S., we often refer to adspersus as a "pyxie". Popular names often lead to confusion.

  5. #64
    Malachi
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    Default Re: Pyxicephalus Differences

    An adspersus looks like adspersus.

    An edulis can look a lot different from edulis.

    This is what is weird/confusing, not just color but shape it seems too.

    And then you have the frogs that seem to be a mix

    It would be nice to be able to match all the edulis morphs to the region they are from.

  6. #65
    onedge30
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    Default Re: Pyxicephalus Differences

    Malachi, I am right with you. This is less clear to me now, then when this thread started. I guess I was completely off, thinking we could find a concrete physical description with an image for each species.

  7. This member thanks onedge30 for this post:


  8. #66
    Moderator tgampper's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pyxicephalus Differences

    Don't get discouraged

    We have come a long way in coming to a conclusion in this "great debate". John mentioned back when this thread began that is wasn't going to be straight forward. I thought it would be easy too. Was I wrong!

    Here are some photos:

    P. edulis
    Pyxicephalus edulis | AFRICAN AMPHIBIANS LIFEDESK

    P. adspersus
    Pyxicephalus | AFRICAN AMPHIBIANS LIFEDESK

  9. #67
    onedge30
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    Default Re: Pyxicephalus Differences

    Terry, Here is some further confirmation of what we are finding.

    These are P. adspersus:



    These are P. edulis:




    I will have to send you the location information and copyright.

    Other tid bits: From Caroline Yetman, SA field researcher

    "Yes, I examined genetic variation among P. adspersus collected from different localities mainly in Gauteng Province, using universal cyt. b primers. I also used ND2 and 16s primers to look at genetic variation between P. adspersus and P. edulis. This data indicates that P. adspersus and P. edulis are 2 distinct species. The male advertisement call is currently the most reliable trait to distinguish between P. adspersus and P. edulis."

    "
    Yes, many photographed and even preserved museum specimens have been incorrectly identified. As you have noticed, the problem is worst for P. edulis. I have also yet to come across a photo or specimen of P. obbianus."


    "
    It's difficult to say. The specimen in the photograph with the white background is possibly a variant of P. adspersus from, e.g. the Free State Province in South Africa, where P. adspersus is smaller, and produces a slightly different call compared to P. adspersus in Gauteng Province."


    "
    The specimen in the photograph with the black background is possibly a variant of P. edulis or P. adspersus from, e.g. Botswana, or possibly a new species of Pyxicephalus. I obtained a tissue sample from such a specimen in Botswana, and used the ND2 and 16s primers, which revealed that it was highly genetically differentiated from P. adspersus and P. edulis."
    Last edited by onedge30; August 31st, 2010 at 07:44 PM. Reason: wrong picture

  10. #68
    Malachi
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    Default Re: Pyxicephalus Differences

    WOW! great post! Look all different frogs. This is a very interesting discussion. Look all different frogs.

    What do you guys think on mine?






  11. #69
    Founder John's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pyxicephalus Differences

    The frog in the 5th photo isn't edulis, going on the work we've done.
    Founder of Frogforum.net (2008) and Caudata.org (2001)

  12. #70

    Default Re: Pyxicephalus Differences

    2nd to the bottom or 3rd edulis is your frog malachi my edulis looked like the last one and the first edulis
    African Bullfrogs, Clawed Frogs, Salamanders, Newts, Bearded Dragons,

  13. #71

    Default Re: Pyxicephalus Differences

    we should serously write an article and put it in reptile mag
    African Bullfrogs, Clawed Frogs, Salamanders, Newts, Bearded Dragons,

  14. #72
    Kevin1
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    Default Re: Pyxicephalus Differences

    Quote Originally Posted by John View Post
    The frog in the 5th photo isn't edulis, going on the work we've done.
    I was thinking the same thing.

  15. #73
    onedge30
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    Default Re: Pyxicephalus Differences

    Quote Originally Posted by John View Post
    The frog in the 5th photo isn't edulis, going on the work we've done.
    I think it is going to depend on which traits are dominant over others. The 5th photo of a very dark pixie has tympanum/ eye ratio of edulis, has stripe of edulis and coloration of edulis throat?

  16. #74
    Moderator tgampper's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pyxicephalus Differences

    Keeping the thread alive

    I am putting together the African Bullfrog Identification Guide and will have a draft done this weekend.
    Terry Gampper
    Nebraska Herpetological Society




    “If we can discover the meaning in the trilling of a frog, perhaps we may understand why it is for us not merely noise but a song of poetry and emotion.”
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  17. #75
    Malachi
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    Default Re: Pyxicephalus Differences

    http://www.frogforum.net/members/mal...0-3-inches.jpg

    this pic you can see the bars, though ill try and get another soon. My edulis is passed out from digesting his first mouse

  18. #76
    onedge30
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    Default Re: Pyxicephalus Differences

    Sounds great Terry. I look forward to seeing the rough.

  19. #77
    Kevin1
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    Default Re: Pyxicephalus Differences

    Excellent news, I'm happy we're getting closer. Thanks Terry

  20. #78
    Malachi
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    Default Re: Pyxicephalus Differences

    Frog Forum - Malachi's Album: Surms

    added a few more Edulis pics to my album, looking a little more adult

  21. #79
    Malachi
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    Default Re: Pyxicephalus Differences

    kingsnake.com Classifieds: BRILLIANT PIXIE FROG!

    another edulis being sold as a giant

  22. #80
    Moderator tgampper's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pyxicephalus Differences

    Quote Originally Posted by Malachi View Post
    kingsnake.com Classifieds: BRILLIANT PIXIE FROG!

    another edulis being sold as a giant
    Sad, very sad

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