Pacman frog drainage layer?

[daybr4ke]

A lot people don't use a false bottom/drainage layer with Pacman frogs from what I've seen. I dont feel like the humidity would be a problem, since they require reasonably high humidity around 70, but there are other issues that might pose a problem. Burrowing frogs(especially pacmans and African Bullfrogs) like to go deep. My African bullfrog gets all the way to the bottom of his sterilite bin pretty much always. Its easy to tell he wants to dig deeper because he makes sqeaking noises trying to dig deeper every so often for a couple minutes, its got me adding 1/2 to 1 inch more every time I switch out my substrate lol. I feel like your pacman frog may burrow all the way down to the substrate divider and then scrape against it trying to go deeper. You might be fine with a deep substrate layer, but then you start running out of headroom in the tank, not that that matters that much. Pacman Frogs aren't known for their jumping after all.
Drainage layers are usually used for planted vivarium so that excess water from watering doesn't just sit and make the substrate swampy. This process also washes frog waste down to the drainage layer where it can be removed via siphon or pump. This, combined with Plants absorbing ammonia and nitrates means that substrate changes are only really necessary on a yearly basis(I'd imagine pacmans might need a more often substrate change.). The problem is that pacman frogs and plants aren't always compatible.
http://www.frogforum.net/showthread....or-Pacman-Frog
Monster mentions his pacman getting a fake plant leaf in it's mouth. The problem with that is that many plants are actually toxic to eat(pothos, philodendron, many others.), and pacman frogs are pretty prone to gobbling things down by accident.
In summary I feel a drainage layer may not be the best idea for a pacman frog. I don't know for sure, but Monster may weigh in with more certain information. He knows a lot more about pacman frogs than I do lol
Edit: Wow, that post ran away with me...sorry this is so long.

[monster]

IMO I would stick with a basic setup that most pacman keepers use, cocofibre a water dish and a couple plants. If the plants are real I would keep them in the pots and as mentioned above I would choose them very carefully so none are toxic if ingested. These guys just lunge and hope they get what they are aiming for in there mouth, if they miss and get the plant they will swallow it. This can pose 2 problems, if its toxic its going to make him really sick and if its a big chunk of leaf it could impact him if he doesn't digest it. I had a fight with one of mine trying to get a fake plant out of his mouth once and if it was a real leaf it would have ripped and he would have swallowed it. I have actually had this happen numerous times but this one incident was real scary because I didn't think he would let go. Sometimes when they are sitting under a plant if they are hungry just moveing the plant to get them can set them off, if it moves they will lunge thinking its food. The other thing is being burrowers and little tanks they will trample your plants or up root them from burrowing beside them. And as mentioned above they burrow right down to your drainage layer and keep trying to go further and this will irritate there skin from rubbing against it. Another thing is as Daybrake mentioned all though the plants will absorb the ammonia and nitrates it may be to much for them, these guys produce a lot of waste. When my adults pee in the bath or water bowl theres so much that comes out you can hear it against the bottom of what ever they are bathing in at the time, and there poos are the size of a breakfast sausage. All in all IMO as nice as vivs are it may just be a pain trying to keep it maintained and the plants alive.

[froghub]

Thank you very much for your answers gentlemen, okay i'll stick to the basic then, my plan for now is to change one of the mesh in the top to glass, and i'll use some cork walls to do some rocks with foam, and one hidding place for him, then i'll put some dry substrat with silicone, and i'll put some plants in another side, glued to the wall too this should look good i hope, thanks again guys will show you my work later

[hisk]

I have a tank with a drainage layer that I've been testing on some gulf coast toads, and honestly I kind of like it! With this kind of setup you can use much deeper substrate without being concerned about the lower layers going sour.

However I did use a more sturdy divider between the soil and drainage layers due to the fact that my toads are burrowers: an "egg crate" light diffuser cut to the size of the tank, double-wrapped in nylon window screen, with each edge braced with piece of well-aged brick. It drains really well and there has been very little soil loss. My fire skink tank has an almost identical design and the skinks and plants are quite happy. I honestly think a pacman would be fine in this kind of setup, particularly with a soil mix that could hold burrows better than coco fiber.

[froghub]

Thanks hisk, i will give it a try then, as you said with a false bottom this can work i guess
So for the moment (as the terrarium is higher than the other i put the ceramic inside)
So i'll leave one grid for now, and the other one has already become plexiglass with a stainless steel frame(so neither the lamp or the plexyglass fall inside) for the ceramic heater.
I'll let you guys check, this is going to take time ahahah, he's still a baby anyway.
Thats an exoterra 45cmx45cmx45cm (was going for the 30cms high but this one was half the price)