Help! White's Tree Frog - Not Eating.. Sick?

[Rezmay]

I have had this frog for 2years now and recently he seems sick.

Symptoms:
He was jumping at the glass and constantly climbing on the glass. He now has a reddish lower belly and legs (might be irritation, but I know it's also a sign of red leg - see picture). He hasn't had much of an appetite the last 2-3 weeks. Last time he ate was 1 week ago - 1 cricket. He pooped since then and it looked normal. He also seems to be shedding a lot. I keep finding strings of skin in his water bowl.

Tank:
During the day it is usually between 80-85(F) at night it goes down to 70. He has plenty of things to climb on and spots to hide. He also has a soaking pool that I fill with bottled spring water. Nothing in his tank has changed in at least 6mon so I don't think it's an environmental issue. I was feeding him mainly mealworms but have since realized that is not good. I am trying to switch him to crickets. He's attempted to eat one a couple times after the one he last ate, but misses and gives up.

Today, I gave him a warm bath with honey and pedialyte to see if that helps. I'm trying to avoid the vet because I called and just a checkup was $70 which is a bit much for me.
Any suggestions are greatly appreciated!

[Frogman1031]

Hello and welcome to frog forum!

so sorry to hear about your sick frog. The picture is not showing up, it would be greatly appreciated if you could try to post them again.

How long has it been since you switched over to crickets?

How often do you clean the enclosure? What do you use to disinfect cage decorations? How often do you replace organic material (wood, bark, etc)?

I would also recommend tong feeding rather than letting the frog hunt for now

please answer these questions as well

QUESTIONS

1----what 'kind' of frog is it ( what species)
2----please include a photo of the frog
3----Please include a photo of the frog's current enclosure
4----size of enclosure ( W" x D" x H" )
5----# on inhabitants - ( if there is another frog --- is there a size difference ? )
6----has or was the frog kept with a different species or with any other tank mate
7----is there a new tank mate----was the new tank mate quarantined
8----what is the typical humidity level
9----what temperature is maintained
10---what is, specifically, being used to maintain the temperature of the enclosure
11---describe the enclosure lighting ( very specifically)
12---describe enclosure maintenance ( water changes, cleaning etc)
13---what kind of water is used
-----for misting
-----for the frog's soaking dish
-----is de-chlorinator used / what brand
14---material(s) used for substrate - be very specific
15---enclosure set up:
-----if recent - describe how the enclosure was cleaned
-----plants( live or artificial) if artificial plants are used are they plastic or fabric
-----describe wood, bark , and background materials
16---when is the last time the frog ate
17---have you found poop lately
18---how often is the frog fed
19---what size feeder is given
20---what other feeders are used as treats
21---what is the frog's main food source
22---do feeders roam free in the enclosure or is the frog bowl fed
23---vitamins - what brand and how often
24---calcium - what brand and how often
25---was the frog without calcium for any period of time
26---approximate age of the frog
27---how long have you owned the frog
28---who cared for the frog before you
29---is the frog wild caught or captive bred
30---how often the frog is handled -- are gloves used ( what kind of gloves)
31---is the enclosure kept in a high or low traffic area
30---has or was the frog properly quarantined (yes or no)
-----for how long
32---has the frog been treated with any medication:
-----for what
-----name of medication
-----for how long
-----what dose
-----was medication prescribed by a herp vet

[Rezmay]

It's been about two weeks since I switched to crickets, but he's only eaten one in that time.
I clean the tank once a month. Last time I cleaned it was maybe 2-3 weeks ago. When I clean it I scrub the decor in hot water with a sponge that I only use to clean his tank (no soaps on it). I replace all the soil every time I clean the tank.

I tried tong feeding him today, but it didn't work. He only flinched and backed away from the cricket.



QUESTIONS

1----Whites Tree Frog
2----(see bottom)
3----(see bottom)
4----12"x12"x18"
5---- just him in the tank
6----hasn't been with any other frogs since I bought him
7----no
8----50-60% but it does go down during the day because I'm not home to mist the tank
9----day:80-85 night: 70 (although I'm not sure my thermometer is accurate?)
10---heat bulb (see bottom for pic)
11---just one lightbulb, in a room with a bright light but when the bulb turns off I drape a black sweater over the tank to keep it dark
12---clean the tank once a month, change the water daily
13---all bottled spring water
14---eco earth coconut fiber
15---enclosure set up:
-----if recent - describe how the enclosure was cleaned
-----plastic plants
-----one wood branch that I bought a while ago (forgot the type of wood)
16---he ate 8 days ago
17---he pooped about 2 days after he ate
18---when he was eating I fed him 3x a week
19---used to feed him large meal worms (3 each feeding)
20---i was using crickets as treats
21---mealworms (I am already aware this was not a good choice)
22---either tong fed or placed in a separate empty enclosure so the insect can roam
23---i don't use multivitamins
24---repticalcium maybe once a month
25---I didn't use any the first year I had him
26---i don't know
27---2 years
28---petco
29-- captive bred I think ?
30-- no gloves, maybe once a month
31---low traffic
30---no other frogs so I haven't quarantined him
32---no medication
gave him a pedialyte and honey bath

[Rezmay]

[Rezmay]

This is what he looks like healthy

[Frogman1031]

12x12x18 is way too small for an adult white's. I would definitely look for a larger enclosure (ideal size is around 18x18x24

You definitely NEED to use multivitamins and calcium more often. For an adult white's i recomend calcium once every two to three feedings and multivitamins once every week or two.

How big are the crickets in relation to the frog?

How often do you clean the water bowl specifically??

Of course i have to reccomend that you go to the vet as it's the most dependable thing you can count on at this point

i do not believe that this is red leg, but only a vet can do the proper testing and say for certain. If it is redleg then the frog will not survive.

I believe however that this is mild irritation caused by elevated bacteria levels in the enclosure. It's not really an infection, but can worsen without decreasing bacteria levels in the tank. My frogs used to look exactly like this before i switched to paper towel substrate. Cleared up the red within a few days. Even if you replace the soil the bacteria will still be there and will multiply quickly unless you use a solution of 10 parts water to one part bleach to clean it. If you do this you must rinse thouroughly and wait at least until the smell of bleach is completely gone

i would also reccomend cleaning the water bowl often. I scrub my frog's water bowl daily with a chemical free sponge and hot water.

White' tree frogs are very susceptile to an overly moist environment and even though the air is not too wet, the substrate may very well be

edit: in terms of food, the crickets may be too big or small (should be about the size of the space between the frog's eyes) or the frog may just not be used to them. Earthworms (not from outside and make sure they have no chemicals) may be a better choice. They're closer in shape and movement to the mealworms you used to feed. Plus they're much more nutritious than crickets as well!

[Rezmay]

Update: My frog is doing much better! Saturday morning I put him in a temporary tank and completely cleaned his main tank. I cleaned the glass of the tank with boiling water. I soaked all the decor in a tub with boiling water and some bleach. I left him in the temporary tank to see if the irritation would go away and it did. So I knew the tank was definitely the problem.

Sunday afternoon his rash was almost gone. So I put him back in his main tank with only paper towels and his water bowl. I will slowly put back the rest of the decor, but I want to monitor his rash to make sure it doesn't come back when a particular item is added. Sunday night I tried to feed him and he ate a cricket!

Thanks for your help.

[Rezmay]

This is how his belly and legs look now.

[Frogman1031]

Excellent! I'm glad to hear that he's doing much better!

[Rezmay]

Unfortunately, his rash has returned and he hasn't eaten since that one cricket. Also, he pooped today and it was green, slimey, and it seemed a bit foamy. I'm taking him to the vet on Tuesday, but any advice on what to do until then?

[Frogman1031]

Sorry to hear that things aren't going well again

the best thing to do now is quarantine the frog in a separate enclosure. It should include

-damp paper towel as substrate
-a water dish
-a place to hide

that's all for tank setup

the enclosure and everything in it should not have been touched by the frog prior to quarantine. Make sure everything is fresh.

Once results from the vet are back you can determine the most prudent course of action. If it's bacterial or fungal you'll have to throw away all cage decorations that can't be properly disinfected and disinfect everything. Same goes for parasitic. Wait for the vet's analysis first though, you don't want to throw away something if you don't have to. In the mean time quarantine ASAP

[Rezmay]

Went to the vet about a week ago, and it was a bacterial infection. They gave me an ointment to treat him with and his rash is clearing up. He's also eating regularly again!

[Rezmay]

He's still shedding a lot though. Almost everyday and I am worried because he never did that before he was sick. Any ideas on the cause of his excessive shedding?

[John]

I highly doubt that the vet knew what they were doing regarding frogs. This is common, unfortunately. Here is what I recommend: do what Eli said with regard to quarantine. Keep it in a quarantine container indefinitely and change the water every 1-2 days and the paper towel when it discolors. I and others actually keep white's tree frogs this way as their normal terrarium (I know some people don't approve of that). Keep the frog in the mid to late 70s - keeping it in the 80s can cause stress from the fact that it hasn't got a good appetite yet its metabolism is forced to work harder at that high temperature.

My big question for you though is ventilation: how much did the terrarium have? My white's live in a completely open top terrarium that only has window screen covering it. Excessive shedding can result from poor ventilation.

Lastly, what are the drugs in the cream they gave you - it should say on the container. Given the vet's approach, I'm worried they may be treating it like a reptile and many reptile medications do more harm than good for amphibians.

[Rezmay]

To give an update: He is completely healthy now, back to his normal self! The ointment really helped. His rash is gone and he has a great appetite.

I don't remember the details of the ointment, but I did research it before using it and I read that it was fine to use on amphibians.

[elly]

Glad your frog seems better.