Drainage layer question

[Calayvie]

I'm planning on building a viv and I've come across scoria (lava rock?) being used as a drainage layer instead of, say, leca/clay balls.
Scoria is cheap and so is very appealing to me right now, but I can't find many accounts of it being used and so i suspect there might be a good reason not to use it.

So, is scoria no good for the drainage layer and if so why?
If it is good, why is leca/clay balls so much more popular, what are the comparisons?

Thanks for any help!



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[Calayvie]

Hmm. It says there is 1 reply but I can't see it?

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[privet01]

Seems that the forum has been having technical issues the last four or so days and no one, including myself, have been able to reply to any posts or even view them while logged in. So hopefully that accounts for the lack of responses.

I think you got some answers elsewhere, but just so I can throw in my opinion...........

Most lava rock is probably inert. So certainly that will make it good for a drainage layer. It's porous and should favor the growth of beneficial bacteria which help maintain your water quality.

The lava rock I've had in the past tends to be sharp, so I don't like it to be exposed to the frogs to crawl over. It's used in aquariums quite a bit. Not without it's nay-sayers though.

It's probably more a question you should ask of a geologist. Is all lava rock created equal in terms of whether it does or does not leach bad stuff into the water?? I don't know. If I had a cheap source for lava rock compared to other options, I'd certainly try it and see.

[Calayvie]

Seems that the forum has been having technical issues the last four or so days and no one, including myself, have been able to reply to any posts or even view them while logged in. So hopefully that accounts for the lack of responses.

I think you got some answers elsewhere, but just so I can throw in my opinion...........

Most lava rock is probably inert. So certainly that will make it good for a drainage layer. It's porous and should favor the growth of beneficial bacteria which help maintain your water quality.

The lava rock I've had in the past tends to be sharp, so I don't like it to be exposed to the frogs to crawl over. It's used in aquariums quite a bit. Not without it's nay-sayers though.

It's probably more a question you should ask of a geologist. Is all lava rock created equal in terms of whether it does or does not leach bad stuff into the water?? I don't know. If I had a cheap source for lava rock compared to other options, I'd certainly try it and see.

Thankyou privet01 for your response!

I'm glad to hear about technical difficulties because I was wondering why it was so quiet and was a little disappointed about it.
I hope it perks up soon!

Thankyou for the info on lava rock. Does it crumble easily?

Its sounds good.
I'm also considering charcoal but I can't find much info on it as a drainage layer, and I would hesitate to use it in an aquarium filter (not that I use filters in my couple of tanks), but I do worry about its "absorbing" qualities. What else does it absorb other than "toxins". But then it does reach a saturation point so maybe that's no so bad.
I also read about iron oxide coming out of clay balls on one site... Pick your poison I guess?

Thanks!

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[privet01]

I'm glad to hear about technical difficulties because I was wondering why it was so quiet and was a little disappointed about it.
I hope it perks up soon!

I think that the site was hacked a few years ago. It's never been quite the same since. There are still links that don't work properly and missing info. After my experience not being able to view posts, I wonder if that's been an issue for large segments of other users at various times and has further discouraged participation in the forum. It will be sad if such troubles shut it down, as I like the organization of the forum. But in the recent case I think only one other user was able to post during the four days I was getting the database errors. So I think it was very widespread.

Thankyou for the info on lava rock. Does it crumble easily?

That and other characteristics of lava rock and scoria from my understanding are dependent on the source. Some do, some don't. Same thing I'd imagine for whether it affects your water quality adversely or not. Still that wouldn't deter me from trying it if it is inexpensive. You can always redo the viv if your creatures appear to be sick and you can't blame something else. But if you can't bear that on your conscience then you should stick to things made expressly for herp and aquatic habitat. In my small ten gallon viv, I just use wash gravel. But that gets heavy quickly. So something lighter like scoria or leca will be a must for bigger vivs, unless I decide to just use a true false bottom. But then I feel like I loose a lot of biological water quality control. Maybe not, but I don't see much discussion of that.

I'm also considering charcoal but I can't find much info on it as a drainage layer, and I would hesitate to use it in an aquarium filter (not that I use filters in my couple of tanks)

Charcoal...... activated, bbq briquettes or natural? briquettes intended for grills have clay binders that probably make it too gummy for vivs. But I've never messed with it in vivs so I don't know. Activated charcoal is sold for aquarium and other water filters. It has to be replaced regularly. I don't use a filter in my small viv. It only has a gallon of water so I just change it every 10 days or so.

I also read about iron oxide coming out of clay balls on one site... Pick your poison I guess?

Yeah..... I think that's the case. You just can't be positive what's in the stuff you are using considering every retailer is looking for the cheapest source. Also consider that their intended purpose for the product might not be your intended purpose. I mean, how likely is it that your supplier for scoria even thought about hazards to frogs when they bought this product for resale? But if you prefer finding cheaper alternatives like I do, then googling the internet can come up with a lot of information. Of course you have to weed through a lot of opinion... such as everything I just wrote.<<grin>>

[Calayvie]

I think that the site was hacked a few years ago. It's never been quite the same since. There are still links that don't work properly and missing info. After my experience not being able to view posts, I wonder if that's been an issue for large segments of other users at various times and has further discouraged participation in the forum. It will be sad if such troubles shut it down, as I like the organization of the forum. But in the recent case I think only one other user was able to post during the four days I was getting the database errors. So I think it was very widespread.
That and other characteristics of lava rock and scoria from my understanding are dependent on the source. Some do, some don't. Same thing I'd imagine for whether it affects your water quality adversely or not. Still that wouldn't deter me from trying it if it is inexpensive. You can always redo the viv if your creatures appear to be sick and you can't blame something else. But if you can't bear that on your conscience then you should stick to things made expressly for herp and aquatic habitat. In my small ten gallon viv, I just use wash gravel. But that gets heavy quickly. So something lighter like scoria or leca will be a must for bigger vivs, unless I decide to just use a true false bottom. But then I feel like I loose a lot of biological water quality control. Maybe not, but I don't see much discussion of that.Charcoal...... activated, bbq briquettes or natural? briquettes intended for grills have clay binders that probably make it too gummy for vivs. But I've never messed with it in vivs so I don't know. Activated charcoal is sold for aquarium and other water filters. It has to be replaced regularly. I don't use a filter in my small viv. It only has a gallon of water so I just change it every 10 days or so.Yeah..... I think that's the case. You just can't be positive what's in the stuff you are using considering every retailer is looking for the cheapest source. Also consider that their intended purpose for the product might not be your intended purpose. I mean, how likely is it that your supplier for scoria even thought about hazards to frogs when they bought this product for resale? But if you prefer finding cheaper alternatives like I do, then googling the internet can come up with a lot of information. Of course you have to weed through a lot of opinion... such as everything I just wrote.<<grin>>

Thankyou again privet01 for your response!

That's no good about technical issues on the site. I hope something can be done to fix it soon.

I looked at some Scoria/lava rock today at the garden/hardware store. Its very rough. I'm planning on a burrowing frog for this enclosure so I think something rough like lava rock is not such a good idea, if he burrows past the weedmat he'd get a nasty pointy surprise! [emoji15]

But I will probably consider it for one or 2 smaller Vivs with scorpions. [emoji3]

I don't know much about the charcoal, it was mentioned on another forum but I haven't found much further info on it. I'd be reluctant to use charcoal in an aquarium filter unless for a specific purpose, so I'm a little deterred from its use, if its the same charcoal, in a viv.

From what I can gather it would absorb stuff ("toxins", tannins etc), until saturated, and then just not absorb them. I don't think it really "dumps" it all back in like some say, because then it could just start reabsorbing it again anyway.
But I worry it might remove good stuff out of the water too, like minerals and such. But I guess that would only be to its saturation point. But then, where is that, how long would that take? I don't know... I'm just not comfortable with it, I guess because I don't know enough about it yet.
Being black in colour is very appealing though, it would look great! But that's a bonus after functionality and the health and happiness of my frog. [emoji3]

So clay balls is looking good right now as the safest option, and a false bottom with eggcrate is still an option, although I haven't found a source for that yet.

Privet01 you helped me realise something... Not to take this too seriously. I have to remind myself of this right now actually. I shouldn't over think things too much, overcomplicate things, or spend too much time umming and ahhing over it. Find a suitable option and go for it. Indecision is a form of procrastinating, and feeds the fear of failure. I've never built/created anything like this before, and its scary. I am proud of myself for taking the first steps so far, instead of continuing to dream about it and never act. I'm amazed I'm actually going to do this!
And I love the creativity this project inspires, its exciting and awesome, and that should be my main focus (as well as creating an awesome home for a frog). [emoji3]

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