Uh Oh. Gonna have babies

[alane]

Ok, well, i'm going to make a confession. I feel that some folks will take this poorly, but I feel I should share anyway.

It is common knowledge that Fire Belly Toads are poisonous, mildly so.

It's common knowledge that PacMan frogs will readily eat another frog.

I had a tank with a hundred FBTs.

I reasoned this way: Perhaps the FBTs do not develop their poison until they grow up.

So.... (you can see where this is going)


On a day where Doug, the Pacman frog was hungry, i put some toadlets in a container next to him. He wanted them.

So, I gave him the smallest. He ate 'em up, no problem. NOM! Doug the Pacman will eat two at a time.

Well, the next week I fed Doug, and being wary of the poison toadlets, I gave him a toadlet that was four weeks old. Not a freshly hatched one.

And.... (i'm not proud of this by the way)

Bubbles. Bubbles came out of my Pacman frog's nose after he ate it.

Ugh. Oops. That was the end of that experiment.

This was many many months ago, my Pacman frog is still growing like a weed. That incident did not seem to cause lasting damage.

And I still got a tank of FBTs, but more like 30 and not 100.

I am going with nightcrawlers right now for both species of frog (and small crickets for the FBT toadlets). This sort of food fattens them up good.

[daybr4ke]

Real talk, I understand how people could find this outrageous or offensive, but I understand. My Woodhouse's Toads would stare and even lunge at the side of the tank while their enclosure was situated next to that of my Pacific Treefrogs. I considered offering them(and my pacman) some tadpoles or young frogs, since I had/have so many. While in the end I decided not to, for multiple reasons, it's not unreasonable in my opinion. Pacman frogs regularly eat other frogs in the wild, anyway. The major arguments against it are usually passing on parisites(Shouldn't be an issue with your captive bred toads, anyway.), the moral dilemma of feeding a frog to another frog, and possible toxins. Personally, I think what you did isn't too big a deal. I even caught an adult Pacific Treefrog chowing down on a baby one once, and had to seperate them, which kinda changed my views on frogs eating eachother. Also, I've no experience with FBTs, but I have(accidentally) kept a Rough skinned or California newt larvae, for a short period of time. Both species are HIGHLY neurotoxic, but after some checking I found out the larvae are not poisonous, and that they only begin producing toxins after metamorphosis.(These newts were returned to their original habitat soon after, just for the record. I wasn't comfortable with them in my house.) While not really similar species, it's possible they are the same in terms of toxin production. Oh, and I'm glad Doug is fine.

[alane]

Well, my babies are still slowly growing. We went through a pretty awful heat wave, temps were over 107F. I don't really know, as I fled to the coast...i'm not going to stew in that heat if I can help it...and the chiller on my aquarium kept my frog colony alive and healthy at 72F. My PacMan frog can take the heat easily it seems, I figured as much as he's a tropical kind of frog.

The FBT tank has been a regulated 72F for some time now and my frogs, who used to sing all the time, have stopped entirely. Dead quiet. They otherwise appear happy, healthy and hungry.

It's interesting that I do, quite often, see an adult frog get a small frog in its mouth. But these frogs seem to have no teeth at all, and every time it has happened, the little frog gets gummed for a while and then spit out. I've not seen any toadlets that have been harmed by this. Although occasionally the toadlet is so irritated from being swallowed by an adult that they go on a very fast swim, back and forth the length of the tank about three times before settling down. No missing legs detected so far. The one time one 'bit' my finger, i hardly felt a thing.
And yet, with crickets, these frogs are quick, accurate and deadly.

[sambal]

I have to admit I was rather sceptical when you first said that the adults won't eat their toadlets, since I know them for stricking at ANYTHING that would fit into their mouths. However, I've been keeping a small amount of tiny toadlets from the latest batch together with the adults for a while now and indeed not a single toadlet has been swallowed! I've seen an adult strike at a toadlet twice but this was only when the toadlet got startled by me and made a huge jump landing right in front of an adult but in both cases the adult seemed less 'motivated' to actually catch it if that makes any sense. For the rest the toadlets can roam the tank freely crawling in front of the adults without any problem, the adults do not seem interested at all. Very interesting! I did not expect these frogs to have such cognitive abilities.

[daybr4ke]

This is interesting. I kept a lot of Pacific Treefrog froglets in a tank with two adults. I guess they aren't as smart as Firebellies, because those adults ate at least a few of the smaller froglets. With the Firebellies, I wonder if a part of it is due to their toxicity. Maybe even the toadlets taste a little bad so if they snatch one on accident they know immediately?

[alane]

I think FBTs may be on the 'smart' scale of things.

They are curious such that if one changes their environment, they check it out.

If I put a food they have not seen much, such as a worm, they'll come up to it, stare at it, dare each other to strike at it. Eventually one will. But it is tentative.

Put a cricket in the tank? They can catch them before they even hit the floor. They have been known to jump the length of the tank immediately and accurately. They love looking at the shadow of a cricket under a leaf; they will all jump to get it. The cricket either gets ate or goes flying. They are nutz for crickets. No hesitation.

Put a toadlet in the tank? The adults let them ride on their backs.

Once, I saw one that looked like it had a bloated belly. I carefully picked him up. He deflated...just trying to float...no problem.
But then something remarkable happened. As I had this frog upside down, he struggled a bit as one would expect...then he went limp. It was not an unken reflex. Froggy just relaxed and let all four legs droop down. I'm holding the frog upside down, mind you, and it relaxes completely. I was a little worried until I put him back into the tank, where he woke up and hopped away.

I know you are not supposed to touch them, and at first, I had a bad skin reaction whenever I as much as touched the water. But i've gotten used to it and can apparently handle one without any reaction now. little upside down relaxed frog in my hand was just a pool of jello. as if it had no bones at all.

[sambal]

When observing their behaviour I would also say they are rather smart (for a frog), however they are in fact one of the most primitive species of frogs, which would suggest the opposite.. I have never had any other species in captivity so I have nothing to compare them to but with firebellies I have always been surprised by how much 'personality' they have.

About the 'jello frog'; Frogs in general can get completely paralysed when handled; take any type of frog and put it on its' back and gently hold it down for a few seconds. After that slowly remove your hand and the frog will remain on its' back for a long time. Years ago I filmed this behaviour with one of my firebellies for a school project, I found the video and uploaded it to youtube to share it with you:



In the first place this is a defence mechanism to confuse predators but I have noticed that when my firebellies are in a exceptionally horny mood they also seem to get very passive when handled. They can just be scooped out of the water and just seem mellow and can't be bothered and will remain in any position that you put them in.