I think my ornate is dieing :(

[Sajuuk Khar]

I have had my ornate for 4 months now. He was doing great at first but in the last few weeks he seems to be declining in health and I cant figure out why.

For the first 2 months he was a very aggressive eater and was growing fast. About a month or so later he stopped eating crickets but would still eat other worms and such on his own. Then he stopped eating on his own and would only eat from tongs. Since I had him he never went to the bathroom as frequent as my other frogs, not sure if that has something to do with it. He is almost 3 inches now. He will no longer take any food and is very very lethargic. When I pick him up he wont even struggle or barley move. He never used to be like this. He seems a bit bloated too, I am not sure if this is the cause. When I touch his side, they dont seem like its filled with water. He barley moves his throat sack while breathing. In this past week he has also been leaking a small amount of liquid from his anus. The liquid does not seem like feces, as it does not smell and is clear. I have no idea what this can be but I know it cant be good.

I have a vet appointment for him tomorrow, and I have a sample of this liquid. I honestly think he will probably die, and perhaps I should have him put down I am not sure.

This is not my first pacman, my other is over a year old so I am not new to these frogs. But I cant figure out what went wrong as he was doing great.

His diet consisted of Hikari pack attack pellets, circkets, horned worms and night crawlers. He is kept on coco fiber, day temps are 80 to 82 and night 75 - 77, humidity is 70%.

Here is a picture of him in his lathergic state, does he seem bloated?

I feel so bad for him, Im pretty sure I am going to lose him

https://s32.postimg.org/cai7x10hh/20170213_065620.jpg

[monster]

Hi, sorry to hear your frog isn't well. To be honest your symptoms and the pictures almost remind me of when my first pacman ever had edema, except for the clear liquid comeing from the bum. But the swelling especially around the back legs really reminds me of the edema, not saying this is what it is but it could be a possibility. Its a good thing you have a vet appointment tomorrow because I think he will need some meds for whatever it is. I seen in another thread that you were asking about the salt baths and yes it could help with swelling and may not. But if you want to give it a try the ratio is 1 teaspoon of Epsom salts for every gallon of water. Just make sure the salts don't have any perfumes or anything added. and I'm going to copy and paste something for you about the salts that I was told by a moderator when mine was sick. Sorry I couldn't have been more help and good luck at the vets.

Cory, was approached by another moderator concerned about high levels of Mg salts could cause problems for frog. I know aquatic frogs are fine with it (i.e. ADFs) during fish treatments in tanks and appeared to help one local sick Pacman (not mine) that eventually did get better. Just letting you know there is a risk involved even if Epsom Salts help with edema. I would stop doing soaks if frog looks increasingly stressed during soak or as soon as edema goes down. If no effect on your Pacman after a couple days; might as well stop it too

[Sajuuk Khar]

Thanks, I will see what the vett says. He does seem really swollen, his front fingers are all puffy, I never really noticed before because he was always sitting on them. I'll try the salt bath after I come back from the vet. I really hope he will make it through, but its not looking too good. He is so lethargic he is barley able to move.

[Sajuuk Khar]

Where you able to treat your first pacman when he had this?

I ask because I took him to the vet and she said by examining him that its edema and that based on how unresponsive and lethargic the frog was, there was already irreversible organ damage espcially kidney, and that he should be euthanized. The clear liquid he was leaking was his intestinal lining, most likely due to the organ damage. I agreed to her suggestion and he was put down. RIP Mr. Pickeles

I just hope I made the right choice, I am not sure if I fought hard enough for him, maybe I should have taken some where else to get a 2nd onion. I just felt he was too far gone, there was zero resistance when you push on his legs or arms, its like the muscles where gone replaced by water they where so puffed up. I thought he probably has suffered enough. But if there was a chance to bring him back... I really hope I made the right choice.

Thats why I am asking how you were able to treat yours? Did you catch it early?

[monster]

Hey again, so sorry to hear about your froggy and that it was edema. I think by the sounds of it that you made the right choice, even if the swelling went away because your right edema is irreversible so it would happen again and you would back at the vets going through the same thing. And this is very hard on the frog, I don't know if they mentioned that they use a needle to drain the fluid out of the really swelled areas and then you have give meds everyday for about a week or two depending on how bad it is. Mine didn't end up making it even with 2 rounds of meds and she had to be drained with the needle 2xs. We did the first round of meds with draining first and it pretty much went away but within 2 days she swelled right back up. So I brought her in and wasn't ready to give up so we did it one more time, drained the fluids and another round of meds but this time she just started to swell back up even with meds. I ran out of meds on Friday and just by looking at her you could tell she just had no fight left her, and I just couldn't let them stick her with that needle again so I told myself I would bring her in on Monday to get her put to sleep. That sunday while doing my morning frog routine when I dug her up to check on her she had passed on her own. Again so sorry for your loss and yes IMO by the sounds of It i think you made the best choice for your frog.

[Sajuuk Khar]

Thanks for your reply, I feel a bit better about my decision. It has heart breaking seeing him so lethargic and puffed up. He is in a better place now.

Now I am trying to figure out if I did something to cause this or is it genetic?

Is it possible if you give too much calcium and vitamins it would cause this? He was eating Hikari Pack attack pellets which should have all the extra vitamins and calcium he needs, but I was also dusting his food as well.. I am wondering if I over did it and it caused this problem?? My other frogs never had this issue and the only thing I can think of different is I didnt do the pack attack pellets, just dust their food..