Temperature Difference

[Morkesverd]

Hi, I am preparing a vivarium in which I intend to keep Fire Bellied Toads, but I am having many problems trying to get the temperature right. I have a heat mat attached to one side, and a heat cable underneath the substrate. I am getting temperatures of 21-25 or so degrees (Celsius), which is fine, but when I move the temperature probe up slightly, I get a radical drop of between 8 and 10 degrees. Does anyone have any advice on how I can bring the air temperature up in there? As I don't want to discover toads with fire on their bellies and ice on their backs! Also, there is a large bowl where I intend to keep their water, would this need to be warmed up and if so what sort of temperature will it need to be?

[privet01]

Water temp is much easier to control and maintain a stable temperature, IMO, than air temp. So if your viv is constructed with a false bottom or drainage layer technique, then the thermal mass of the water will add considerable stability to your air temperature. Stability is more important all around, again IMO, than a particular temp. Though I don't think a gradual change in temp over the changing seasons is a bad thing.

And your FBT's will enjoy the extra water to lounge in.

I wouldn't sweat the low temps for FBT's though. They are cold-blooded from most of the stuff I've read. In their natural habitat it is said they burrow into soft mud and remain there till things warm up. And soil temps easily remain below 14C in the winter time in the places FBT's come from. Also I've read that breeders sometimes put the females in a refrigerator for a week to get them in the mood to produce eggs.

As for your question, while reading it I was wondering.........What size is the viv? Is the viv in a temperature controlled area? If so, what are the ambient temps there?

[privet01]

Here is a link to a care article on FBT's. I think it's the one that the stickie in this sub-forum is supposed to point to, but no one has fixed the broken link.

http://www.frogforum.net/content.php?r=123-Fire-Bellied-Toad-Care-and-Breeding-Bombina-orientalis-and-relatives

It's fairly informative. The only big disagreement I have with the article is that they state there is no proven benefit to UVB and FBT's. However in a very active discussion I had with several members over a year ago, someone posted some actual links to research that does show UVB being beneficial. Luckily, my lighting was providing some UVB and since I've increased the UVB slightly they seem even better in color and overall health, though I'm not remotely qualified to truly assess their health or the cause of it.

[jasonm96]

That caresheet... twice weekly feeding and 6 toads in a 10-gallon? Hmm, I'm afraid I don't like caresheet at all.

These ones are good:
http://www.amphibian.co.uk/bombina.html
http://amphibiancare.com/2008/03/21/fire-bellied-toad/

[jasonm96]

Heat mats are innapropriate for fire-bellied toads, since these guys spend most time on water and more likely to bask when on land. They should be kept in an aqua-terrarium, with slightly more water than land, so the water temperature is important. You can control temps with an aquarium heater and offer a basking site to them on the land with a low-wattage spotlight.

[privet01]

Considering that most of us like a viv with all sorts of "features" in it for a pleasing visual effect and to sooth our conscience that we are providing well for the care of of pet, I'll agree that six FBT's in a standard dimension 10 gallon viv is probably too many. But if the viv is mostly water with a small island then maybe six isn't too many. After all, look at how they keep them at the pet store. Not the prettiest, but they live there. But the article still gives decent information and it prompted you and hopefully others to add some more links.

[jasonm96]

Pet store conditions are temporary and usually simple for routine maintenance to prevent bacteria build up of overstocking. I would never keep an animal in those settings for long. A 10-gallon pushes 4 frogs at most.

[Morkesverd]

Thanks for the help, I've been busy sorting out a few things with it, and I have now achieved a better temperature for them.