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Thread: Hump on Back of Green and Gold Bell Frog?

  1. #1

    Default Hump on Back of Green and Gold Bell Frog?

    Hello everyone!

    I have a two-month-old Green and Gold Bell Frog (Litoria aurea) named Froakie raised from a tadpole, who has a hump on his (or her!) back. My sister had another frog of the same species and roughly the same age who didn't have the hump, but sadly it died for unknown reasons . I am a total newbie when it comes to keeping frogs, so I thought I'd come to the forums for advice! I am wondering whether this hump is a spinal deformity or something, or whether it is normal.

    I am sixteen and on a very tight budget, but over time I am doing what I can to upgrade Froakie's home. I have grown to love frogs, as they are amazing creatures, and I want Froakie to be my companion for many more years to come.

    The frog lives in a temporary tank set up with large, smooth gravel as a substrate (I know gravel is bad, but the pieces are too big for my Froakie to eat, and I'm designing a more permanent half-and-half tank with sphagnum moss). Three to four times a week, I feed Froakie undusted wingless fruit flies (about 10-15). Froakie has a small bowl of water for bathing that I clean and refill with de-chlorinated/ aged water every day. He/ she does not have a heat lamp, but sometimes I turn my fluorescent desk lamp onto the tank on dreary days, and put his tank in the sun on nice ones I am at home all the time, so I keep an eye on it.

    While I was raising the tadpole, I fed it tadpole food from the pet shop.


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    Until I can get a better picture of him, this will have to do.. he's tiny, about an inch long from nose to tail if anyone could tell me what this hump/ hunchback could be, it would be greatly appreciated!

    (Also, how can you tell the gender of a frog? O.O)

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  3. #2
    Moderator Mentat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hump on Back of Green and Gold Bell Frog?

    Hello and welcome to FF! Can't see the hump in the back you mention; but if it looks similar to the small hump some of these show, would not worry about it: litoria aurea - Bing Images. Here is a link to article with care information for your frog: Frog Forum - Green and Golden Bell Frogs (Litoria aurea). Also, recommend get some supplements (Repashy and Rep Cal are good) and dust 2X calcium and 1X vitamins weekly on different days with an off day in between. Good luck !
    Remember to take care of the enclosure and it will take care of your frog !​

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  5. #3

    Default Re: Hump on Back of Green and Gold Bell Frog?

    Thank you so much I am buying a calcium supplement without D3 today (pet shop doesn't have vitamins), and looking at those pictures, I see a lot of froggies with humps similar to Froakie's.. Thank you for your help!

  6. #4
    Super Moderator Heatheranne's Avatar
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    Default Hump on Back of Green and Gold Bell Frog?

    Hi Blue,

    You'll need the calcium WITH vitamin D3 for proper absorption. Without, it passes through the intestinal tract with minimal absorption.

    Low blood calcium in frogs can lead to death, illnesses, deformity. Definitely necessary for your little guy/girl.

    It is also very important to get some multivitamin supplement. Repashy and Herptivite are both good.

    If you'd like to learn more about calcium, vita D3, multivitamins and why we use them I can link an older post in which we explained in great detail .

    Cute little frog you have there, btw .
    https://m.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10203589094112277&id=1363241107&set =a.1434844115446.2055312.1363241107&source=11&ref= bookmark

  7. #5

    Default Re: Hump on Back of Green and Gold Bell Frog?

    Sorry for the late reply! Thought I'd just update you quickly.. I ended up buying Flukers calcium with D3 added.. I read somewhere that you can overdose on D3 so I was a bit apprehensive, but I did a bit of research and Heather's advice helped a lot as well

    I can't find a multi-vitamin at the pet shop, so I'll try and order one online.

    Since Heather posted, I've also upgraded the tank! Froakie is now living on a sphagnum moss substrate with rocks, a pool of water, a tunnel to hide in, and I'm in the process of seeking out some artificial plants and a background. Much better than the $15 plastic fish tank with gravel as a base D:

    Do either of you have any tips for dusting winged flies? Buying wingless fruit flies got way too expensive ($15.00 a week :O ), so now we just catch fruit flies from the compost (which is chemical free). I know there's an increased risk of disease from doing this but buying was ridiculous and smelly, and Froakie seems to be healthy and happy. Name:  969322_564438893599019_1281794958_n.jpg
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  8. #6
    EmJay
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    Default Re: Hump on Back of Green and Gold Bell Frog?

    Fluker's vitamins can be bought at Hollywood Fish Farm in Albany and Mt Roskill, BirdBarn (pet shop side) in Henderson/Lincoln, PetStop in Dominion Rd, and (I think) VetCare in Grey Lynn. Or TradeMe, but that's usually a dollar or two dearer, plus postage. Vitamins are around $16-$18 in most places, so more expensive than the calcium, but you do use less!

    Feeding home-caught insects isn't usually recommended (especially not on this forum!), but I know a lot of people in NZ who do it, and I don't recall hearing about many problems. Watch the compost carefully, though, because if the pH balance gets off or the weather turns, or if some critter gets in there and dies and the flies eat that, they may be passing on bacteria to which Froakie hasn't developed any immunity.

    If you go back to buying food, or decide to supplement with other types of insects, the best way I've found is to order as much as possible/practical at once via Lifestyle Animal & Pet Supplies:

    Live Food - Reptiles - Pets & Small Animals | Lifestyle Animals & Pet Supplies Ltd

    They order direct each week from BioSuppliers, and then the feed is couriered from BioS directly to your house (thereby doing away with the middleman, and making sure your feed hasn't been sitting on a shop shelf hatching, aging, and dying before you buy it). Lifestyle Supplies is also cheaper than any of the pet shops, so even with an $8 courier fee (or as I try to think of it when I'm paying, "freshness guarantee", *L*), if you're buying 2-3 types of bug it's not that much dearer than buying from, say, BirdBarn (next cheapest).

    (Note: don't ever bother buying live feed from Animates or other big pet shop chains... It sometimes sits on the shelf for ages, and they seem to be more expensive than anywhere else in the city...)

    Anyway - DUSTING FLIES

    The easiest way I've found is using the plastic tubs that BioSuppliers use, but if you've got your caught flies in a plastic container it should still work.

    EQUIPMENT (have this all set out ready when you start):
    - snack size zip-lock plastic bag, labelled (so you don't mix calcium & vitamin powders)
    - jar of supplement
    - tiny scoop (optional, but less wastful than pinching with fingers; I use sterilised 1/16 tsp scoop from stevia jar; you could use the wrong end of a teaspoon)
    - container with flies

    1) cut a little u-shaped trapdoor in the lid of your fly container with a craft knife. It only has to be big enough for 1 fly to crawl out at a time. It should "click" shut when you're done, but if it's wiggly, you can rest a paperweight on it when you're not using it.

    2) Open your supplement powder (and put it somewhere you won't knock it with your arm). Open wide your zip-lock bag.

    3) Open the little trapdoor on your bug lid, and place the open zip-lock over the hole (make sure there are no gaps around the bag for the flies to escape). Wait patiently for X number of flies to crawl into the bag.

    4) Try to coax the flies to the top (which is actually the bottom) of the bag, away from the opening. When you've done that, slide the bag over the lid from behind the trapdoor, so that you push the trapdoor shut without taking the bag off the lid. (Make sense? I hope so.)

    5) Quickly zip the plastic bag shut. Best done by lying it flat so that the middle of the bag collapses flat and creates a barrier between the flies and the opening while you're zip-locking.

    6) Open a smidgely cm or so at one end of the zip closing, and add your pinch of supplement powder. Zip back up again and shake gently to coat the flies. (Flies have furry bits, which hang on to powder really well. Unfortunately, they also like cleaning themselves, so hopefully your frog is a quick feeder. Mine's not... )

    7) Put the lid back on your powder, check that the bug container is securely shut. Head to the frog enclosure with your bag o' noms. The next bit will depend on what kind of enclosure you have, and how it opens/shuts, but tip the flies in with the frog. They don't seem to fly very well when they're covered in powder, but they might try to escape. Mostly they seem to cling to the bag, so you might need to brush them in with your finger (then they might cling to your finger). Try not to spill too much of the residual powder out of the bag, as it messes up the enclosure, and if it's still in the bag you can probably use it next time.

    So... good luck?

  9. #7

    Default Re: Hump on Back of Green and Gold Bell Frog?

    Thank you so much! It's handy having a Kiwi around who knows what they're doing :P

    The way you dust your flies sounds like a much easier way to do it, with the little trapdoor.. I'll give it a go next time I feed and I'll get on to the Vitamin powder sooner rather than later, now that I know where to get it from!

    About buying the fruit flies from Animates... we were buying them from Four Seasons Pets, most of the batches died off a day or two after we brought them home, so we don't trust them any more! I'll look into ordering some from Lifestyle Animal & Pet Supplies and maybe start culturing my own.. there's something to be said about the convenience of them not being able to fly haha..

    Once again thank you very much

    If dragons were real I'd totally be in on that...
    1 German Shepherd X- Badger

  10. #8
    Super Moderator Heatheranne's Avatar
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    Default Hump on Back of Green and Gold Bell Frog?

    How's your frog doing? Any changes in the bump?
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  11. #9

    Default Re: Hump on Back of Green and Gold Bell Frog?

    Quote Originally Posted by Heatheranne View Post
    How's your frog doing? Any changes in the bump?
    No changes thanks for asking, but I just got some more frogs of the same breed and they're making my frog seem very small, shrimpy and skinny... I'm wondering whether he is in fact too skinny, and therefore the bump I see is his spine

    If dragons were real I'd totally be in on that...
    1 German Shepherd X- Badger

  12. #10
    EmJay
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    Default Re: Hump on Back of Green and Gold Bell Frog?

    He could be a bit under-fed, but golden bell frogs can tend to look a bit bony compared to some other types of frogs, especially rounded ones like white's tree frogs that you see pics of on this forum. Have a good look, and try to decide if he's really skinny, or just sleek. When they're skinny, it's their pelvis that sticks out first, and they get twiggy little back legs. Try google images for pics of "average" bells, and compare Froakie to that.

    I might suggest feeding smaller amounts daily, with one vitamin day/4-5 calcium days per week, for a couple of weeks, and see if that helps. If it does, go back to the usual every 2-4 days that's recommended for bell frogs. If not, you might need to seek more expert advice. (Don't do the extra calcium feeds indefinitely, as over-dosing can be as bad as under-dosing, but if Froakie hasn't been supplemented until now, a week or two of extra should be okay.)

    You could also try waxmoth larvae for one or two feeds per week for a month or so. They apparently have more nutrition and less chiton than mealworms, but still have a bit of fat for bulking frogs up. Avoid mealworms, as people have no doubt already mentioned.

  13. #11
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    Default Re: Hump on Back of Green and Gold Bell Frog?

    You can order directly from Biosuppliers as well. I send Mike a text when I want the flies and they get delivered usually very quickly. Their price list is here: http://biosuppliers.nz/crimson_004.htm When you buy direct, they are larvae so I always plan for this when I place an order. I have also just got some dried crickets from Insect Direct http://www.inzectdirect.co.nz/ and some black saw fly larvae.

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