Pacman looking very round.

[Ferretdragon]

I'd improved the temperatures by adding a heat mat - he'd already done the whole crispy thing on me once before when we first got him, spraying him etc brought him out of it and he ate his skin and started being active again but this is different, Currently got him sat on moist tissue just in case but he's discoloured, his bloating has vanished entirely but you can still see he was full of whatever it was - I'm assuming it was the morios and his sides are now hard and mishapen, eyes are flat, sunken and mishapen, which I know happens when they do go dormant but the rest of him doesn't look right at all - he was fine in the early hours of this morning, as in 3-4am.
I've googled pics of pacmans doing it but they're still round, he's really not anymore

[jasonm96]

Heat mats are not the best. Heat lamps are better as they give you some ambient heat.

Again, sorry for your loss. Don't let it put you off, though. Honestly, if you get the kit I posted above and read a good book like horned frogs by ray huzniker then you should be good!

[Ferretdragon]

Yeah it was just to tide over until we got the new setup, I think it must have been a combination of cooler temps and morios that did it in the end. Doesn't help that other places I went to get help either made keeping them sound horrendously complicated - I had read up on keeping them before going to get one but apparently not enough! Or they'd just say "Pacmans are meant to look round"
I've found somewhere I can order lobworms from - would they be a good food for pacmans if I try again?

[monster]

So sorry to hear about your loss, it may have been something prior to you purchaseing him and the stress of the move just made the problem kick in to overdrive. And as jason said dont let this discourage you from getting another, lots of people have lost frogs there first time around.

[jasonm96]

Cooler temps definitely, it can cause improper digestion so the food basically rots inside. But morios are not bad in moderation. It's best to feed a varied diet to large frogs anyway. Their just high in fat and have a bad Ca:P ratio but it can be corrected by gutloading and supplementation. Lob worms or nightcrawlers, have a better Ca:P ratio and are healthy, so you can feed these more. You don't need to supplement the lob worms but other food such as crickets, roaches and pink mice should also be used to make sure the frog is getting all the nutrition it needs.

Frogs are complicated to care for, not saying they're hard to care for but they have many needs that have to be met. A good pet shop will tell you so, rather than making them sound as easy as throwing a few crickets in now and then, change the water dish, etc. as so many wrongly do. The good thing is that the information to successfully keep them is out there and it's easy enough to care for most frogs when you have a good few books on them.

[Ferretdragon]

What I got told when I got him was that room temperature was fine - I went back several times to voice my concerns over the temps his tank was at and was told he was fine as he keeps loads of frogs. I was told to dust everything with calcium supplement, change the water in the bowl daily with treated water, spray him daily with treated water to keep him moist - change the soil every few weeks and not mix it up.

[monster]

They always say the room temp thing, i swear they think people keep there house at 80f all year round. The spraying directly also stresses them out, if they get hit by the mist the odd the time its not to bad but not to directly spray them. They stay moist by absorbing the moisture in the substrate, and if they feel dehydrated they will usually go to there water bowl. 80f and up to about 85f is were you want the heat to be, i find around 82f is nice comfortable temp for my guys. Darn pet stores.

[jasonm96]

Most pet shops I've been to know nothing about frogs and apparently yours doesn't know anything either, if they think room temperature in the UK is suitable for a horned frog. I think it is shocking that a pet shop can give out advice like that when it is well known that horned frogs, one of the most popular frogs in the trade, need a absolute minimum temperature of 24C, although this is not ideal and it should be warmer during day, especially for juveniles. The temps Cory mentioned are the correct ones. You also need a multivitamin supplement. I relied on pet shop advice when I started out and ended up in the same place as you.

[Ferretdragon]

Well I've ordered that book you mentioned, I'll get that other kit and sell this little exo terra on. Hoping I can get a frog that looks similar, though not sure where exactly to get one from now, really don't want to use that shop ever again.

[jasonm96]

There's some pyxies (giant African bullfrogs) going and I highly recommend them!! Marc staniszewski (legend) that owns dart frog.co.uk is selling grown on juveniles for £90. Yes this is steep, but the amount of money for feeding you'll have saved makes them worthwhile and they can live up to 40 years and reach a large size. They're also more active hunters. Otherwise, reptilecentre are a good shop and should sell some horned frogs or exotic pets also are good. The pyxies will require similar but larger housing but I can advise you to my knowledge and what I've done, in what to get. Their care is otherwise the same and featured in that book

[monster]

I would agree that if you don't have a lot of mouths to feed animal wise that the GAFB would be better then the horned frog. Horned frogs literally don't do anything once they are older were as Jason said the GABF will still be active. I have said it before and will say it again that if I didn't already have to many pets I would have one, I like to keep myself at a limit. I love the big frogs and one day I will own one of these tanks. Its all the darn nice looking morphs of pacmans that always get me, theres just so many.

[jasonm96]

Can understand with the D&M's fantasy horned frog and Kim thomas's abilno, beautiful! But they're like a fashion accessory rather than a display of activity, unfortunately. Although I suppose they're active at night if you use LEDS to view them, especially the cranwellis. Giant African bullfrogs though! Or Colorado river toads if you're into big frogs. If you've seen them in flesh Cory you would be amazed. Massive, rhino-like toad means awesome! Dart frog also sells them but a bit different in care. Definitely a good idea to resist the temptation and keep it to a limit, easier to pamper those select individuals, I have gave a few away myself.

[Ferretdragon]

They sound awesome! The only problem I have is the little one we just lost was my 6 year olds pride and joy

[Ferretdragon]

What are the Bull Frogs like for being held? (we didn't pester the other one just now and then when we were cleaning he'd sit on someones hands for a bit.)

[jasonm96]

I know the feeling, it's horrible. But no fault of your own. Pet shops shouldn't sell animals without giving correct advice and recommending books to you for further learning. In future though you will be fine and you're kid may well have the frog for years. Keeping frogs also teaches children to learn many things about animals and biology keeping frogs and appreciate for all life. If there's anything you need help with just give me a DM and I'm sure Cory would be happy as well, he's really nice and knowledgable.

[jasonm96]

Bullfrogs are not too good for handling, they'll tolerate it but that's it. But they're interactive during feeding and will calm down. If you want a frog to handle then whites tree frogs are your best bet. They look to appreciate company so a few of them is probably best. They're greedy just like the other two frogs

[Ferretdragon]

OK, well I'll have a look around and see whats what, I just want something my son will enjoy watching grow and that I don't feel like I'm failing miserably in looking after haha

[jasonm96]

That book I've recommended will tell you all you know in a beginner way for horned frogs, it's easy to read. A fairly simple frog to keep is a fire-bellied toad if that interests you, they're very tolerant of different housing and only need a little heating as they need temps between 22-25C. They're nocturnal but also active during the day, so a better display pet

[Ferretdragon]

I have a feeling I'm going to be looking for another small round squishy yellow pet pebble

[jasonm96]

An albino huh? Reptile centre have some I believe