Mixed Terrarium

[bshmerlie]

When I first got my first firebelly I had him in a tank with five gallons of water and three fish. By the end of the week all three fish were dead. Is anyone currently keeping a live fish with their firebellies? If so exactly what type of fish, maybe a particular kind can handle it. I know the guppies I had couldn't and they were around way before the toad.

[Judy S]

to be honest with you,,,that was one of the concerns I had...if the FBTs are in the water will their toxicity poison the water for the fish. Currently I do have one FB in a paladarium and it has been in the water but not as an everyday thing...and the fish have been okay...I'll have to ask my "fish guy." unless there is someone on the forum who would have an answer!! Thanks for your input..

[bshmerlie]

My toads sit in the water most of the time. The are not swimming all the time but they do sit on rocks that are submerged a little bit in the water. Maybe if I took away the rock option and they had to just float they wouldn't spend so much time in the water and fish would be okay. Or maybe with your paludarium your plants are helping to filter the toxins....hmm. How long have you had the toad in there with the fish and what kind a fish are you keeping? Like I said I had five gallons of water in my tank but I didn't have any live plants and the guppies croaked quickly with just one toad introduced. How many gallons of water do you have in your tank and are you using a large biological filter? Maybe with more water and a lager filter that would help.

[Judy S]

An earlier post in this thread by Kevin may be helpful to you because of his experience with guppies...my set up is a complete aquarium gravel substrate, and a pump that is in a sectioned off area so it can be pulled easily and the critters cannot get sucked to it. I only have the one FB and the fish are Endler Live Bearers. Look them up...they are really colorful and there are websites devoted solely to them.The live plants I have have been a matter of testing which ones can stand their feet in the water...and the tank has a waterfall that plays over the mopani and java moss...there is no filter but I do small water changes every week and the waterfall adds oxygen. It was not intended for critters but I am delighted to have had this door open by the sheer gift of a stowaway on some plants that arrived at Lowes to the plant department...have searched the internet over and over but cannot identify it. So I got hooked...

[Deku]

An earlier post in this thread by Kevin may be helpful to you because of his experience with guppies...my set up is a complete aquarium gravel substrate, and a pump that is in a sectioned off area so it can be pulled easily and the critters cannot get sucked to it. I only have the one FB and the fish are Endler Live Bearers. Look them up...they are really colorful and there are websites devoted solely to them.The live plants I have have been a matter of testing which ones can stand their feet in the water...and the tank has a waterfall that plays over the mopani and java moss...there is no filter but I do small water changes every week and the waterfall adds oxygen. It was not intended for critters but I am delighted to have had this door open by the sheer gift of a stowaway on some plants that arrived at Lowes to the plant department...have searched the internet over and over but cannot identify it. So I got hooked...

She said it was a 5gallon tank with 3 guppies let me just say thats not alot of water for guppies. Also guppies only live to 2 years at most. Sometimes 3years but thats rarely. Guppies need some salt in their tanks. They should be in groups no less than 6guppies(1male per 2females). Also it probably was the bioload that killed the guppies, when the toads poop in the water it produces alot of ammonia. That ammonia then goes into the bioload, if there is not enough bacteria there still will be some of that ammonia in the water and eventually kill the fish. Sometimes if you mix in something that produces high ammonia so quickly itll make the tank go into a mini cycle which the fish will not be able to handle.

Ived had fish with fbts. I had em once in a 40breeder(2-3toads, 12minnows). The tank was mainly aquatic, so it had atleast 10-20gs of water in it. The land area was made from driftwood, and this large floating basking area made for turtles. It was atleast 6-12inches long and wide. The tank also had floating plants(I made sure they didnt cover the WHOLE tank because that would kill the fish). The minnows also live up to 2years so after a year they died, they were already fully grown. To keep em alived I fed the fish mixed foods, I left in live plants(anachris are my favs), and changed their water constantly(weekly). I didnt do a fully water change just a 10percent change. I kept a small canister(it was for turtles but it sucked so i used it for this.) I used seperate charcoal bags in the water so if any medicine, or toxins or whatever would get absorbed by it. Thats what charcoal is for, it absorbs stuff in the water(bad or good). So I only did a bag of it once a couple of weeks.
So you CAN keep fish with fbts as long as the fish have the gallonage they require and as long as the fbts have land. Also make sure to keep the water atleast 72. Plants will help the fish cope with any stress it may have. Just make sure to cycle the water first. This is done by putting a frozen shrimp(whole jumbo cocktail shrimp) per 20gallons(1 shrimp per 20gs) and leave it there till the water cycles, make sure you get a water testing kit. The master kits will save you alot of cash and grief. Remember just cause the water looks crystal clear doesnt mean its appropriate. Also when the cycling starts itll turn murky for the first week only do small water changes(5% at most) per week. When the ammonia is down test for nitrates and nitrites, you want the nitrates to be down. Or was it the nitrites? In any case just look up "Cycling a tank", you will need to wait in total of 3-4weeks for a succesfful cycle. so even then you still need to wait. Also make sure you do water changes weekly after the cycle is done a 10% water change will do or even a 15% depending on how many you have. Make sure you have a vaccuum for tanks(go to a petstore) you will need to vaccuum the solid waste every week when doing water change.
Dont add the frogs when cycling the tank, the ammonia may also kill the frogs just saying. As for these frogs eating fish, no way jose. Ived never seen any of these frogs eat fish or attempt to, I had em for 2-3 years and then gave em to a friend who now has em in a 75g with 10-12more fbts, in a palidirium style with tons of tiny fish in there, no fish as ever been eaten byany of his fbts or mine.

Endler live bearers and pretty much any rype of killifish or livebearer may be somewhat delicate in ammnoia, so go with danios. Danios are THE best fish to have with other animals, they are hardy, cheap and nice to look at. They live 5-10years.

[Judy S]

Have to give you props...very well described...and would love to have more input along the way...I had danios in the paladarium setup but they did not do well...they aren't as colorful as these Endlers either.The area which will be the "land" area will have egg carton/substrate' etc. so there will, I hope, be a good area for terrarium live plants...and of course the usual elevated areas for the frogs to cruise...I do plan to let the tank cycle and for the plants to get a start...in the meantime want to set up my ExoTerra for some darts that I hope to get this weekend at the Maryland show...and when my new guys , RETF and a Lutino RETF get a little larger, I have a home set up for them too. Its a disease...a really serious disease...

[Deku]

Have to give you props...very well described...and would love to have more input along the way...I had danios in the paladarium setup but they did not do well...they aren't as colorful as these Endlers either.The area which will be the "land" area will have egg carton/substrate' etc. so there will, I hope, be a good area for terrarium live plants...and of course the usual elevated areas for the frogs to cruise...I do plan to let the tank cycle and for the plants to get a start...in the meantime want to set up my ExoTerra for some darts that I hope to get this weekend at the Maryland show...and when my new guys , Red-Eyed Leaf Frog and a Lutino Red-Eyed Leaf Frog get a little larger, I have a home set up for them too. Its a disease...a really serious disease...

Ahhh. Well I will input on fish questions. As for some fish not doing well. First off, theres alot of things to consider why a fish may not be doing well.

In all honesty, not all fish are compatable. But here is a list of what maybe wrong:
-The fishtank may not have the correct PH desired by the fish(angels I think like a high PH).
-The tank may not have appropriate heat, some fish like it cool(65-72), while some like it warm(73-82).
-The tank water may either be too hard or too soft. Hardness and softness is read by GH and KH, which is also measured by how much minerals are in the water. Normally a "hard" water is very hard to change. Not impossible but normally a pain, liquids dont work on this. Pretty much to make water softer you may divide up the water to half RO water(no minerals so itd be soft, but you dont want the water anything below 6.0 NO MATTER WHAT at this rate itd burn the gills.), or you could use stuff like driftwood to produce blackwater. Or so Ived heard. In general, you should call the water company to see what water quality you have first before you try to put fish in. PH is easy to change and will constantly change so that you have to test for every so often(weekly) but GH and KH is pretty much a set thing. Its not going to change unless you purposely change it. Salt also makes the water hard. Mainly hard water from the water company I think it contains stuff like I THINK limestone, I know it defenitely has calcium. Maybe magnesium? I was reading something earlier on this. Also hard water contains I think something called chloramine which you still have to take it away manually since unlike chlorine it wont evaporate and this will ultimately kill your fish/frogs. My friend doesnt use tapwater conditioner for his frogs. But they never look as bright as healthy when he got em(my other friend). Thus you see his pacman frog which was once a brightlush green is now a deep dark brown and it looks like a pickle(literary).
-Food is also important, flakes and pellets are okay but dont contain the exact nutrients the exact species of fish may require. In any case you need a varied diet consisting of proteins and veggies.
-Substrate some fish require stuff like sand(cichlids, catfish. and another type of fish which I forget). While others prefer types of gravel, and others large river rocks.
-Is the water oxygenated and kept cleaned? Some fish require pristine water conditions, while others dont. Most fish need a highly oxygenated tank. Cold waterfish obviously require this more than warmer water fish. Coldwater=higher oxygen is produced. Warm water=oxygen gets depleated.
-Some fish like calm, and quiet tanks without any strong currents. While some THRIVE in very strong currents. You wouldnt put a betta fish in a tank with a strong current, as you wouldnt put something like say a corydora in a low current tank(cories like currents). Some fish require currents. I cant think of some right off my head, but I know some NEED strong currents to live. Iam assumming minnows like strong currents, species of tetras, and that sort of stuff. Columbian sharks like strong currents. Hillstream loach NEED strong currents, since they come from a place that has very strong currents that is very cold. Their body is MADE for currents, its how they get their oxygens. They being from china.
-Plants, and coverage. All fish need some type of coverage but some need it more than others. African cichlids require them to have lots of rockwork, else they fight for any hide out and will ultimately die out of stress. Stuff like tetras prefer to be in planted tank, they're small bodied fish and they generally love to hide in plants. That obviously being said you put some plants in they will be alot happier, more colorful, and overall healthier. Stuff like livebearers thrive in liveplants. Theres also hatchet fish. They like floating plants. Stuff like african butterfly fish also require floating plants. Even some frogs like floating plants. I definetly know you give an african clawed or an african dwarf frog some floating plants and itll be less stressed. Since itll give them that sensation of being undercover.

That being said there is alot of things why I fish could die.
Also you could have gotten a bad batch, it could have been loaded heavily with parasites and the stress of transporting them may have triggered something hidden to pop up. This is why when you buy fish you bring paper bags or even a cooler and store them in there. Putting them in a dark place in the ride home will pretty much lessen the stress. Them seeing someone look at them all the wayhome will ultimmately stress them out and kill them. So yeah. Also some fish maybe more tolerant than others. I know kilifish are delicate, stuff like neons are delicate. Glass fish are also delicate. South american cichlids are delicate. You may wish to go with more hardier stuff. I know barbs are hardy. Theres also cories(one of my favorites). Minnows are hardy although feeder minnows are a whole different story. Iam talking about stuff like white mountan clouds(they like cold water), or stuff like danios which are a type of minnow. I worked in a petstore. In this petstore there has been many dead fish(30a day). Ived rarely seen the danios die. These fish are survivalist. That store uses sump units. So 40fish tanks share 3 large sumps. All of which if one sump gets sick all the fish gets sick from that same sump. Ived seen tons of fish get popeye, bloating, ick, velvet, etc. You name it and only a few cassualties from the danios. Danios are often overlooked. But if you get them frm a good source they should last you atleast half a decade. Give or take.
Good luck in cycling your tank. Word of advice. Measure the gallons of water and use one whole frozen jumbo cocktail shrimp per 20gallons. So 1 shrimp per 20gallons. Leave the shrimp in a small bag with holes. Use a ziplock bag and poke alot of holes in there then stick the shrimp in there and tie a string to the bag and keep it weighted in one area(middle of the tank) and leave it in there for atleast 4weeks. This will give the tank the ammonia it needs. Id recommend on changingthe shrimp every week though(just in case). This will keep the tank healthy and clean. If you cycle it with fish, you may end up introducing parasites and bad bacteria to the tank. Only do a 5% of water change PER week. If it looks cloudy and the tank stinks it means its cycling. dont touch it. Once after the 4weeks are done. Get your water test kit ready and test for the ph, ammonia, nitrate, and nitrite. I dont know if it was nitrate or nitrite that was bad. But one of them you want at 0. You also want 0 ammonia. Ammonia burns gills. You should do more research on the tank cycling process.

[tearsmith]

Well first off firebellies arent going to eat the guppies as they prey on land(from what i noticed).

Hello. I am new to this forum, but I wanted to let you know that this statement about FBT not eating guppies is not so. I have two FBT and they eat mostly guppies and crickets. They sit on the edge of the rocks, up out of the water, and lean over. When the guppie swims in range, the FBT dives in and swallows them up. I buy them small, like half inch or less and put in about 8 at a time. It takes two days for the 8 to be eaten. Then I wait a day and feed gut loaded crickets. Then wait another day and put in guppies. The variety keeps them more active and greener than FBT I have had in the past. I would suggest try it. Makes them interesting to watch too. BTW, my toads are in a primarily aquatic setup (3.5" water) with rocks and plants to climb out on. They prey on the crickets on land and guppies under water. Hope this helps.