Is my FBT habitat temperature swing too much or beneficial?

[ndb3]

Hi - I have done numerous searches on and around FBT recommended temperatures. Generally, most of the recommendations say they are happy between 68 and 78 degrees. I have a 41 gallon aquarium (34x14x20) in a 1/2 land 1/2 water configuration. The land has live plants, 7 inches of hydroballs and stone (water flows under the land back to the waterfall pump and the chiller pump) 3 inches of ABG substrate, some moss, some cork, a stream and a waterfall as well as elevation changes. The water is about 5 inches deep with multiple live plants and some ghostwood... I am running the environment with a reef controller... I am tracking water temp, air temp, room temp, pH, and ORP. I've installed a mistking system, fogging system, seasonal moonlighting system, 2 chillers, and a 40W heater... all controlled with automation.

I wanted to provide a natural rise in temperature during the day and fall during the night. I used seasonal weather data from southeast asia for the temperatures... Aquarium sunrise is at 10am and sunset is around 10pm. The program takes the water and air temperature from about 78 degrees at 5pm to 70 degrees at 5am.

Here's my question: I am using the water temp to control the overall temperatures in the aquarium. The air temp seems to track pretty closely to the water temp. I'd like opinions on whether the temperature swing I am giving the frogs is beneficial or if it's too much?

They seem happy, but I'm not exactly sure how to tell if a FBT is happy. They eat all the crickets I give them - 15-20 every other day... or sometimes every day because everybody loves to watch them eat. All the FBTs eat one day or the next... None of them seem too fat... they all have clear eyes... they roam around from the land to the water... and overall seem pretty active.

Thoughts? The reason I am asking is because it occurs to me that in a normal outdoor environment, the air temp might get colder at night, but the water could stay pretty warm... or at least drag behind on the temperature drop. With my setup, both land and air are changing about 1 degree every 1.5 hours. While it's neat, it may not be what makes the frogs the happiest... So, I am looking for advice...

Thanks!

[jasonm96]

Nothing wrong with a 8F drop at night, it's what happens in the wild. All my animals have a drop at night, it's often overlooked but very important IMO. I wouldn't recommend using an aquarium heater to control the overall temp, because they are active day and night, I find they do best with a temperature gradient with a basking spot. In the wild they will bask and cool down in the shade as needed. Without a temperature gradient they can't control their own body temperature and this can effect digestion and feeding. If the water is cooler than the land and the land is warmer with the basking spot, at night when the lights switched off you will have a night time drop in the ambient temperature.

[ndb3]

Hi Jason - Thank you for the feedback. I really appreciate it. I live in Texas - it's still hot here - so the living room gets up to about 76 degrees during the day. If I turn the chillers off, the tank rises up to 82 degrees. It is not in direct sunlight. It does have a submerged waterfall pump and a submerged chiller pump. Both pumps are always running even if the chiller is not in operation. Primary lighting is from LEDs, but I also have a supplementary tropical UVB light that runs for a few hours each day. So, the combined heat load from the two pumps and lights will get the temp pretty warm.

To get the 8 degree temp drop, I have the chiller programmed with setpoints that drop 1 degree every 1.5 hours... to get the temp to rise during the day, the heat comes from the heater as well as room temp, submerged pumps, lights, etc. While the heater does come on to raise the temp, if it climbs too high at any given hour, the chillers will come on to keep it in the right zone. The heater is set to never come on over 78 degrees and the chillers will come on if the temp goes above 78 degrees.

I sort of have a basking spot. It was unintentional... Just noticed a frog sitting on top of the waterfall which means he's up near the lights... the higher elevations in the aquarium are warmer than the lower areas.

Again, with my current setup, the air temp tracks about a degree or so warmer than the water. I could switch things up by keeping the water cooler and only warm the air... just have to turn on the fans - the temperature around the LED fixture is pretty warm. If I blow air down into the aquarium, the air temp rises nicely (that would only work during the day while the lights are on)

Thoughts?

[jasonm96]

Hi Jason - Thank you for the feedback. I really appreciate it. I live in Texas - it's still hot here - so the living room gets up to about 76 degrees during the day. If I turn the chillers off, the tank rises up to 82 degrees. It is not in direct sunlight. It does have a submerged waterfall pump and a submerged chiller pump. Both pumps are always running even if the chiller is not in operation. Primary lighting is from LEDs, but I also have a supplementary tropical UVB light that runs for a few hours each day. So, the combined heat load from the two pumps and lights will get the temp pretty warm.

To get the 8 degree temp drop, I have the chiller programmed with setpoints that drop 1 degree every 1.5 hours... to get the temp to rise during the day, the heat comes from the heater as well as room temp, submerged pumps, lights, etc. While the heater does come on to raise the temp, if it climbs too high at any given hour, the chillers will come on to keep it in the right zone. The heater is set to never come on over 78 degrees and the chillers will come on if the temp goes above 78 degrees.

I sort of have a basking spot. It was unintentional... Just noticed a frog sitting on top of the waterfall which means he's up near the lights... the higher elevations in the aquarium are warmer than the lower areas.

Again, with my current setup, the air temp tracks about a degree or so warmer than the water. I could switch things up by keeping the water cooler and only warm the air... just have to turn on the fans - the temperature around the LED fixture is pretty warm. If I blow air down into the aquarium, the air temp rises nicely (that would only work during the day while the lights are on)

Thoughts?

It's funny, I'm at the other side of the spectrum where I have to put a thermostat-controlled oil radiator in my room to bump up the ambient temperature. I think with your room temps unless there's away of air-conditioning the room down to the low 70s F, I would worry about it. These frogs do quite well in a variety of different kind of set ups and temperatures. It's just that some of the breeders do suggest a basking spot, and if possible it's probably going to be beneficial, but many are kept well without, so I think as long as that elevated area of that is there then they should do well. If you look up in google images with the fire-bellied toad set ups you'll actually see a lot of the toads climbing to the elevated areas under the lights, and this is probably enough to allow them to warm up and cool down as needed. Have you got any pics of your set up, sounds pretty cool? Note that in order to upload pics you have to use a photo hosting website and then copy and paste the URL

[ndb3]

I could drop the room temp down, but the cost is a little outrageous... I'll wait for the weather to cool off and then drop the whole house to 70 degrees... Been thinking about it and I am going to look at controlling the water and air temperatures independently... maybe look to have air at 78 degrees and water at 74 degrees at the hottest part of the cycle... that gives the frogs a range of temperatures to choose from.

I tried to post a jpg from photobucket and couldn't get it to work... Not sure what I'm doing wrong.

[ndb3]

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[jasonm96]

Sounds like an idea but as long as there's an elevated perch under lights it should be fine, I've done this when I have been in the same situation with my heated frog room

Really like your set up dude, looks amazing! Lucky toads. May I suggest putting some duckweed in? they really like to hide in that
image hosting sites

[ndb3]

Thanks! I appreciate it...

[ericbrookey]

I agree with controlling air and water separately. You want the water a bit cooler than the air, for sure. I don't heat my water at all but I live in So Cal and unless we have a super hot day, the water doesn't fluctuate more than 73-76 and air from 75-78. During summer it can get above 80 but then I just ran a small fan into the tank and it keeps it max at 82 which is at their high range but acceptable for short periods.

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