Sickly WTF

[Stimpy]

Hi everyone, I'm a little desperate for help right now. This will be a long one.

I've had two WTF males for about a year and a half, who until recently have lived together in a planted 18x18x24. One frog, stimpy, has always been bigger and more "dominant". The other, June, was smaller but still plump and healthy looking, with an appetite. A few months ago he became difficult to feed, refusing food some nights and only taking one cricket/roach on other nights. This progressed into June not eating at all, which was obviously concerning. We moved him to a quarantine tank, though we mostly felt that it was a result of intimidation from stimpy's bullying (he would sometimes jump in front of him and steal food from the tongs). June still had little to no appetite, and eventually went off feed for over two weeks. We contacted Dr. Frye, who sent is Baytril and Metronidazole for a topical application. June did not improve, so we saw a vet in our area who: 1. Told us what dr frye is doing is illegal (!! What?) and 2. Gave us ciprofloxacin (oral) and carnivore care food, and told us to keep up the metronidazole, though upped the dose and told us to give it orally. We did this for two weeks. Upon his advice, we left June alone for a few days to decompress and then tried to feed normally. June still refused to eat. Anyways, this takes us to today. Vets are closed until tomorrow, and June was looking sickly, so I gave some carnivore care. Fecals have not been done (waiting on a sample), and both frogs are separated, now living on damp paper towels with a dish of spring water. I'm currently using a normal house bulb for June's quarantine tank, keeping it about 80 during the day and mid-low 70s at night (room temp, lights off). The other frog is doing perfectly, fat and active. I forgot to mention: June had some red/pink coloring on his belly and legs, but this has been so for over a month. It varies during the time of day/what he's doing. June is also still pretty active; this also worries me, he will crawl along the top of the tank, rubbing his nose and mouth in an effort to escape. I have tried raising/lowering both temp and humidity, and nothing seems to really help. Recently though, he seems to be doing it less, and seems more content.

Lastly, I will admit to not being good with supplements. When the frogs lived together they received low levels of UVB (a 2.0 bulb) and received calcium and multivitamin sparingly (certainly not enough). I realize my mistake now, and hope it is not too late. If someone could point me to an acceptable supplement schedule, that'd be super appreciated. I have rep-cal with and without D3 and herptivite on hand. Thank you in advance!

PS, I will 100% contact my vet tomorrow, but I wanted to know what you all thought.

[jasonm96]

Hey

Until the fecal comes back there's not much known about why the frogs not feeding and how to resolve it. I'm never had any problems with bullying, usually the competition makes them more eager to feed, if anything. If you didn't supplement the diet correctly then it could have MBD and finding it hard to catch prey or move about, but unless any signs of deformity are there then blood tests and x-Ray's would be needed to know for sure.

A planted tank that size might be quite hard to keep clean for whites, not much floor space for planting and for waste to get broke down in, could lead to infections. This is only my opinion, I would just go larger for planted tanks for them to work best. The 2.0 UVB bulbs should not be labelled as UVB bulbs. Only if they are mounted inside the tank are they any use because the screen top filters up to half of the Rays out and a 2% output is low so not much power will make it through. If it were me I would use a 5% and a heat lamp during the day for a basking spot of 85F. I gut-load insects with fruit and veg mixed with calcium and then every few feeds a commercial diet and dust with Repashy Calcium Plus every time. it's easier than the normal supplements which can't be used as frequently and need to be used on set days (which recommendations vary) to avoid over supplying. For the supplements you have I think the usual is twice a week for juveniles and once a week for adults with the calcium mixed with the multivitamin, one should have D3. Someone else might be able shine some light.

[Stimpy]

Thanks for the response. I just heard back from the vet and the fecal came out clean. Definitely good news, but I was honestly hoping for a simple reason for his not eating. So if he supposedly has no parasites, and he's been treated with metronidazole and ciprofloxacin, what could be the issue? He still has not eaten. I've tried crickets, silkworms, and wax worms to no avail.

thanks for the supplement info. I went ahead and got the repashy calcium plus and have been using it for the other frog.

[jasonm96]

There's a few things that will make them stop eating

If temps are too low or high then this will cause stress and decrease appetite but some gannets may still eat even if they are over or underheated. Another is to remember that when older they need less food and might not always take it unless you give them a few days without. Like I said MBD is one thing that can make frogs lethargic or have difficulties with feeding. Basically, read up and go over your husbandry make sure every times right and check for signs of metabolic bone disease

[Stimpy]

Thanks. I've upped the temps a little bit, which he seems to enjoy. The hottest point is right around 83. He's spending time up top, near the basking bulb, so I'm assuming it's not too hot. I mist the tank a couple times a day, and I'm using paper towels along the bottom. I only have a single live plant in the tank that fills it out well; trying to keep it minimal and clean. I change the towels and water bowls at least every other day (usually daily). The only thing off about the habitat (to my knowledge) is the size: it's only a 12x12x18, meant to be a hospital tank until this resolves.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but if MBD were the primary cause of this, wouldn't there be some other apparent signs that the vet (a qualified hero vet) would have noticed? I'm definitely not denying the possibility, but he doesn't seem to have any trouble walking/climbing/gripping, and the vet looked at/in his mouth and said he looked good.

[jasonm96]

It's easy to notice when it's progressed real far but less at the beginning. I was listing possible causes, but the vet should be able to tell you what's wrong or make suggestions.