How do you keep it clean?

[Lily00]

I'm new here. We don't have any frogs yet but I'm wanting to get a couple of fire bellies for my kids...Don't worry, when I say "for my kids" I just mean that they will name them and look at them and I'll do everything else.

I'm really excited about setting up the tank. We have a 10gal and a 20gal long in the shed. I'm not sure if the 20g holds water as we used it for a tarantula years ago. Anyway, I've been looking at different set ups and I really live the ones that are half water and half land but I'm confused on how you clean them. We've got a 75g fish tank so I'm no stranger to cleaning tanks but it just seems complicated to change such a small amount of water. Maybe I'm overthinking it. How do you get the water out? When I change the water in our big fish tank I leave several inches of old water in...which is more than the frog tank would even have. Could someone walk me through exactly how they clean their habitat?
Also is there somewhere with pictures of other member's set ups? I need some ideas.

[privet01]

I just siphon my water out with a rubber hose. I do a full water change weekly in my fbt viv which is in a 10 gallon tank. It is set up so exactly one gallon of water fills to the desired level. Some people prefer to only change half the water at a time. It can be argue either way, but what ever floats your boat is what matters.

If you have a water pump in the viv to circulate water for a water feature, then you could plumb it to include a way to pump the water out for changes.

[Lily00]

I just siphon my water out with a rubber hose. I do a full water change weekly in my fbt viv which is in a 10 gallon tank. It is set up so exactly one gallon of water fills to the desired level. Some people prefer to only change half the water at a time. It can be argue either way, but what ever floats your boat is what matters.

If you have a water pump in the viv to circulate water for a water feature, then you could plumb it to include a way to pump the water out for changes.

Ok, this sounds dumb but could you explain how you siphon it out with a hose? I've only ever used those weird looking aquarium siphon things. The ones you shake around in the water and they start sucking the water...but I don't think that would work with such a small amount of water.

Also, I was actually hoping you'd respond because I've been doing some searching around the forum and your setup sounds about like what I'm wanting to do. Do you have any pictures that you can share? I'm wanting it to be low maintenance but still healthy for the frogs.
I'm finding a huge amount of conflicting info! People saying that a dish of water in fine because the frogs like land better, people saying they need at least 50% water because they like water better...people saying that you need a filter and pump, people saying that the frogs don't like filters and pumps...special lights or regular lights... It's very confusing!

[Lily00]

Would it work to do the entire bottom in water with rocks and logs built up to be above the water level instead of doing the 50/50 thing? If that makes sense..?

[jasonm96]

IMO fire bellies do best in setups with 50:50 land and water or slightly more water. I keep mine with up to 4 inches of water and a turtle dock for land. Filters are a must because they produce so much waste when properly maintained but they won't like constant moving water, so make sure to put the filter on it's lowest setting and have a tank big enough so that there will be still water parts. Since they are diurnal and bask, UVB lighting is wholly beneficial and they will also use a basking spot via a heat lamp

[Lily00]

IMO fire bellies do best in setups with 50:50 land and water or slightly more water. I keep mine with up to 4 inches of water and a turtle dock for land. Filters are a must because they produce so much waste when properly maintained but they won't like constant moving water, so make sure to put the filter on it's lowest setting and have a tank big enough so that there will be still water parts. Since they are diurnal and bask, UVB lighting is wholly beneficial and they will also use a basking spot via a heat lamp

What type of filter would you recommend? Again, I'm completely new to this and I've never had any kind of amphibian before.

[privet01]

could you explain how you siphon it out with a hose?

It's easy to do, hard to explain.

I use an old piece of rubber hose that was intended to be fuel line for an automobile. It's about a 1/4 inch inside diameter. But just about any hose or flexible tubing will work. It needs to be long enough to reach the bottom of the tank with the other end going into the bucket which must be lower than the bottom of the tank. Preferably on the floor if your viv tank is on a table or stand.

Put an inch or so of water in the bottom of your bucket. Fill the hose with water from a faucet. You can hold both ends level and put one under the water faucet, when water comes out the other then put your thumbs over both end and stick them down in the water. Don't let them come out of the water or you'll get air in the hose which can stop it from achieving a siphon.

When you are at the viv, pick up the hose with both ends covered with your thumbs. Removing your thumb from just the end that you are putting in the tank, plunge it into the bottom of water in your viv. Then put the other end down into the bucket and remove your other thumb from the end of the hose and water will flow. If the end in the tank gets exposed to air, you'll likely have to fill it again start over.

I'm finding a huge amount of conflicting info!

Yeah, Partially because what works for some doesn't work for others. So you have to think about it and see if the advice is something that might work for you then try it. And partially, because most of us really have no idea what what we are talking about <<grin>>

People saying that a dish of water in fine because the frogs like land better, people saying they need at least 50% water because they like water better

IMO, FBT's need 50 to as much as 80 percent water. At least if we are talking B. orientalis. Mine spend most of their time in the water. If I let my water goes too long between changes, I notice they will be on land more. Perhaps the others claiming they don't like water have unhealthy ammonia levels or such.

people saying that you need a filter and pump, people saying that the frogs don't like filters and pumps

I only have a gallon of water in my ten gallon viv, I don't use a filter, but I usually change it weekly. I check the ammonia and nitrate/nitrite levels periodically and never have they been excessive in less than 10 days.

If I had more than a gallon or had a water feature such as a stream or water fall, then I'd consider using a filter and pump as I'd not want to spend that much time dealing with lengthier water changes every week. But then again, I probably have to check ammonia levels more often.

[privet01]

Oh.... on my statement about my water quality without a filter, keep in mind I only have two FBT's in that gallon of water. So if the math works, then three FBT's would mean the water would have to be changed every three to five days. That would be a chore for certain.

And I do agree with Jason that FBT's about moving water. From what I've read their natural habitat is in calmer areas of water. Not still and stagnant but not Niagara falls either.

I'd steer clear of a heat lamp though. Unless your viv is so big that the warm spot you create won't affect the temp of the rest of the viv adversely. FBT's are not a tropical pet. They are from a temperate climate so normal viv temps should be more like you like your home temps, and even cooler is okay.

I do think that a light that provides some UVB is good. Other's have finally convinced me that there is research showing FBT's benefit by producing their own vitamin D when exposed to UVB similar to how humans do....... or did before they told us to use sunscreen.<<grin>>

A simple fluorescent bulb that provides UVB will work to provide "basking" as well as your overall lighting for the viv. Just provide them something they can climb up on to get closer to the light. How close? Well give them several different levels and let them choose.

Also they or at least mine like hideouts. Give them at least two, one on land and one in the shallower part of the water.

[Lily00]

Thank you so much. I may practice the siphon thing on my 75g to see if I understand like I think I do.

i have a tendency to talk my husband into new pets by saying "it's easy and low maintenance!" And then by the end of it I've got an expensive project on my hands and I feel like this is already going down that path. I was originally ok with throwing some peat in a tank with a big dish of water and some fake plants...now I'm wanting at least 50/50 water and land with live plants. I think I'm getting in over my head because I've never done any of this and now I'm trying to learn about frogs, live plants, filters, lights, and how the heck to build exactly what I want. Ugh!

[privet01]

I've never done any of this and now I'm trying to learn about frogs, live plants, filters, lights, and how the heck to build exactly what I want. Ugh!

As long and you can realize when things are going wrong and you still have enough interest to make the effort to change things, then you should be okay.

Don't go all out right away and blow all your budget on things that don't work for you then loose interest due to disappointment.

[Dace]

Maybe get an amphibian that doesn't need a large amount of water? Tree frogs and toads just need a small water bowl that can be easily changed every day. (Though I'm not convinced water bowls for tree frogs in sufficiently humid setups do anything but spawn bacteria.)

[Lily00]

As long and you can realize when things are going wrong and you still have enough interest to make the effort to change things, then you should be okay.

Don't go all out right away and blow all your budget on things that don't work for you then loose interest due to disappointment.

I'll keep that in mind. Usually my big ideas work out ok but occasionally I have pretty big flops....like the time I unknowingly adopted 2 pregnant female guinea pigs, ended up with 7, and converted over half our family room into a giant hard to clean guinea pig enclosure. My husband will hold that over my head forever.

[Lily00]

Maybe get an amphibian that doesn't need a large amount of water? Tree frogs and toads just need a small water bowl that can be easily changed every day. (Though I'm not convinced water bowls for tree frogs in sufficiently humid setups do anything but spawn bacteria.)

Well, I haven't completely thrown in the towel yet on the FBTs. Although my kids would be happy with anything froggy. They begged to bring the ones they caught last week on our camp trip home.

[jasonm96]

If you need help picking the right stuff, the easiest would be to buy this kit or buy the products invidiually, but change the lamp to a 25w (if you want to provide a basking site) and get some plants, this is what I have and works well for 6 fire-bellies. Water should be in the 70sF. http://zoomed.com/db/products/EntryD...343&SearchID=5

Fire-bellies are one of the most easiest amphibians to keep and forgiving to mistakes, it's all a learning process of trying different things to see what works and reading books and taken notes. If you want an easy amphibian to set up and maintain I would get a Whites Tree Frog, they don't need a large section of water and just a water bowl.

[Lily00]

If you need help picking the right stuff, the easiest would be to buy this kit or buy the products invidiually, but change the lamp to a 25w (if you want to provide a basking site) and get some plants, this is what I have and works well for 6 fire-bellies. Water should be in the 70sF. http://zoomed.com/db/products/EntryD...343&SearchID=5

Fire-bellies are one of the most easiest amphibians to keep and forgiving to mistakes, it's all a learning process of trying different things to see what works and reading books and taken notes. If you want an easy amphibian to set up and maintain I would get a Whites Tree Frog, they don't need a large section of water and just a water bowl.

I adore Whites Tree Frogs! But I feel like I'd have to buy a whole new tank for one because I'd want it to be tall for climbing. They are definitely a consideration though if I could find them locally.

[jasonm96]

If you got a baby or two you could raise it in the 10-gallon, then get a bigger tank when it's an adult or if the 20 gallon you have is a high one it could fit it for a couple of years, but ideally something larger at one point would be better