White's Tree Frog constipated!

[Ganondorf]

Hello! I do apologize if I am doing something wrong; surfing the
internet wielded some different results, and I wanted to join this forum in hopes I could talk
to some people with good experience!

About two weeks ago I adopted a WTF from Petco. Large, loved to eat!
But now he (she?) has no interest in food. Twice the frog threw up (what looked like the fine coconut
husk substrate I use), and has no interest in food.

I also noticed him trying to poop, but unable to get it all out.
His skin is normal, eyes are clear and has no problems soaking/crawling/climbing.

I guess my question is, what should I use/do to ease constipation? Before I take him to a vet I want
to see if I can help him first. After this I plan on changing the substrate to a very nice 'carpet' I saw at the store!
(very very soft, tried tugging and nothing came up which makes me think he wouldn't be able to eat it).

I don't want him to die, especially since he's a sweetheart and I don't want to be irresponsible, you know?

Yes, I am a first time owner and would be glad to share the tank size/humidity levels and etc!

Thank you again!

[elly]

Hi! For constipation you might want to give him a lukewarm water bath (check with a thermometer to make sure it's not too hot) to get his system moving. It helps if you use something like a plastic box with a lid because the frog won't want to stay in the bath at all! Make sure the water's dechlorinated and shallow enough not to go over his head.

Soft foods can ease a frog's constipation, but then they're worms and frogs prefer food that moves faster than worms even when they have a healthy appetite. Still if you wanted to try, hornworms are high in water (the kind you get from a pet store, wild ones are toxic bc of diet), cut up nightcrawlers can be used (but not red wrigglers or tigerworms, those taste bad). Waxworms can also be used, but if the frog accepts them he might just refuse to eat other foods. Waxworms are like frog donuts- high in fat and calories but not terribly nutritious.

How long has the frog refused to eat? The carpet sounds nice but make sure there aren't any loops in it that a frog foot would get caught in.

Here's a link to some questions if you feel like copypasting and answering them. http://www.frogforum.net/showthread.php?t=30850 They might help people figure out if there's anything wrong with the frog besides constipation.

[Ganondorf]

Ahh thanks so much!

Currently I can see him trying to push out stool (with some visable but not moving).
I fear he devoured some of the substrate or frog moss (which I just learned is actually bad for frogs).

Uhm.. about a week he refused. Three crickets were left in there and I only see one; I'm assuming he ate them.
And I'll make sure! It's super 'moss soft' carpet but I'm going to inspect it thoroughly.



1----what 'kind' of frog is it ( what species)

White's Tree Frog.


2----please include a photo of the frog

He just had a soak, and the picture (his back) is
outside the glass, whereas his front pic is in.


Frog pic 1
Frog pic 2

3----Please include a photo of the frog's current enclosure

*Note: Tapemarks are from the outside. This is an old tank that was washed
thoroughly with hot water before adopting him
enclosure


4----size of enclosure ( W" x D" x H" )

Unsure; we believe it's a 15gal Zoomed tank (I think it's Zoomed)


5----# on inhabitants - ( if there is another frog --- is there a size difference ? )

Just Deku (the WTF).


6----has or was the frog kept with a different species or with any other tank mate

Two weeks ago he was with four other WTF in his enclosure at Petco.


7----is there a new tank mate----was the new tank mate quarantined

Nope.


8----what is the typical humidity level

Not below 50%, no higher than 65%


9----what temperature is maintained

70-75 at day, 60-65 at night.


10---what is, specifically, being used to maintain the temperature of the enclosure

60 watt UVB basking light (forget the brand name)


11---describe the enclosure lighting ( very specifically)

Basking light is a a dome light, turns on around 5-7 am (when we get up).
Only on one side or in the middle.


12---describe enclosure maintenance ( water changes, cleaning etc)

Cleaning has not been done yet (frog has thrown up twice of which we have discarded),
Water is changed every other day/every day depending on spoil level.


13---what kind of water is used

Poland Spring water (in jug).


-----for misting -PSW

-----for the frog's soaking dish -PSW

-----is de-chlorinator used / what brand -N/A


14---material(s) used for substrate - be very specific

Fine coconut husk for bottom, frog moss to keep humidity (we are removing that promptly)


15---enclosure set up:

-----if recent - describe how the enclosure was cleaned- Not cleaned as of yet other than picking up feces/vomit

-----plants( live or artificial) if artificial plants are used are they plastic or fabric- A soft plastic (unsure if fabric)

-----describe wood, bark , and background materials- None as of yet; both Petcos do not have the sizes (too large or
just don't have it).


16---when is the last time the frog ate-

About (possibly) two weeks ago.



17---have you found poop lately-

No- he is constipated.



18---how often is the frog fed-

Every other day.



19---what size feeder is given-

Medium pinhead crickets



20---what other feeders are used as treats-
None so far.



21---what is the frog's main food source-
Pinhead crickets.



22---do feeders roam free in the enclosure or is the frog bowl fed-

Free roam; currently stopped and tried tongs
to no avail.



23---vitamins - what brand and how often-

N/A



24---calcium - what brand and how often-

ReptiCalcium; was going for once every week.



25---was the frog without calcium for any period of time-

Unsure at petco; dusted when first fed.



26---approximate age of the frog-

Unsure.



27---how long have you owned the frog-

A little over two weeks.



28---who cared for the frog before you-

Petco.



29---is the frog wild caught or captive bred-

Guessing captive; very calm when handled



30---how often the frog is handled -- are gloves used ( what kind of gloves)-

Gloves are not used (we run our hands in hot water before handling);
haven't handled since last week (we only handled him twice in our two weeks of owning.)



31---is the enclosure kept in a high or low traffic area-

Low; other than a few games it's quiet.



30---has or was the frog properly quarantined (yes or no)-

Unsure.



-----for how long-

N/A



32---has the frog been treated with any medication:

No.

[elly]

Ahh, frog moss can be awful. If the hot bath doesn't work, some people suggest giving the frog some kind of oil but I've never been able to find anything saying whether that would be toxic to them or not. Hate to say it, but if he doesn't poop in a while a vet visit might be the only thing left to do (unless someone else wants to chime in with something I've never heard of?). Impaction (severe constipation) can eventually kill frogs.

Your care looks pretty good, all I can see is that it might be a bit cold at night.

[Ganondorf]

Sorry for the late reply!

He's still trying to push it out, but he can't get it all the way.
I'm going to go to Petco today and grab some things, and see if they have any hornworms.
He hasn't eaten so it might not work..

Also, where can I get chlorinated water tablets? Or is it safe to heat up the spring water in the microwave?
I really want to try to save him. I'm looking up exotic pet vets in our area, but the closest one seems to have better
knowledge of birds than anything.

[Ganondorf]

Ok, so she went. I think she was impacted for a longer time, and now I think her intestines are also out. I'm sorry for double posting but I'm not sure what to do. Will be calling vet.

EDIT: I am trying a sugar/water soak. He does have a prolapse but is more than energetic. I called all 5 vets, and none will take him. One vet even changed her tone when I asked if they'd help a White's Tree Frog.

[Larry Wardog]

Soak it in sugar water for around 20 minutes and check it the next day. Should work


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[elly]

THat looks pretty nasty! I'm sorry and I hope the soak works.

[Ganondorf]

Soak didn't work, and it's still out.

I don't know what to do at this point. I may have to take her to the vets to have her euthinized, which I don't want to, since aside from this she's really healthy and lively.
I don't know. I'll try another soak or the q tip to push it back in.

[elly]

I hope it eventually works. Sad to say there was a user here who had a frog with an infected prolapse and she needed to euthanize it at home. I think the post is still around here talking about that. Edit (Warning, sick frog picture at top): http://www.frogforum.net/showthread....ght=euthanasia
Hope it doesn't come to that, but if the frog doesn't get better or the vet won't work on frogs it might be helpful.

[Ganondorf]

Oh man, I might have to. I don't really know. The frog is ridiculously healthy, but nothing seems to be working. Left the frog in there for over an hour in sugar water, nothing. Tried pushing it back in, nothing. I might see if my vets can put Deku to sleep because I don't think I can :/

[KMAC]

I dont know if this helps you or not but is this type of thing not related to calcium deficieny/D3/UV?

[KMAC]

Im no expert in frogs but im doing a BSC in natural sciences and done a HND in Zoology so have a basic understanding of Biology, Chemistry and animal psychology so my theory would be just going on pictures alone is...deficency of calcium, D3, UV etc leading to >> bones weaker >> thus the pelvis being weaker also >> causing the prolapse

[elly]

I don't know. Some sources say that's a cause.
I've also read that parasites can cause prolapse somehow(maybe through irritation?) Also this frog was impacted, most likely from moss so straining might have caused/contributed to the prolapse.

[Lija]

Im no expert in frogs but im doing a BSC in natural sciences and done a HND in Zoology so have a basic understanding of Biology, Chemistry and animal psychology so my theory would be just going on pictures alone is...deficency of calcium, D3, UV etc leading to >> bones weaker >> thus the pelvis being weaker also >> causing the prolapse

no that is not correct. There is nothing in the pictures that would suggest MBD, although of course only X-ray diagnostics can confirm or not.
The leading cause of prolapse is impaction, that is almost always due to swallowing something they can't digest - pieces of decor, coconut husk, moss, lots of chitin containing food ( mealworms, superworms), etc. Very rarely parasites are the cause.

in that particular case I very strongly susspect a frog came impacted from petco.

To Ganondorf - can you please describe how are you soaking, in what and for how long? Please don't soak in anything for now and use only sugar or very sugary water directly on the prolapse.

It's been too long, it needs to be surgically fixed. You need vet!

Edit - just saw that vets in your area are not exactly seeing frogs and you live a bit too far to come to us Try to call somebody else.
you can pm me, I'll see it faster then here, I'll try to help you more.

.

[KMAC]

Parasites would be my second choice when looking at this so I agree with you but I dont see any secondary infections but then diagnosing on pics alone aint best practice

[Ganondorf]

I've called over 5 different vets that were 'exotic ', none that took frogs. As posted before, they all seemed to change their tone when I said I needed help with my WTF. Seems to still be out, but I'll try another soak. Just wish Deku wpuld stop straining to push it out.

Also, I have no way to test for parasites unless I can do it myself.

And yes, it's definitely impaction, not deficiency. He passed the stool which was ridiculously large which is my guess for the prolapse.

[elly]

Yeah, plus I'm not even going to school for this, so you know, not an expert!

[KMAC]

I have a book called current therapy in exotic pet practice and all that has been mentioned above by everyone including me is very possible the full list of usual causes of this are GI disease, nematodiasis, MBD, gastric overload, intoxication (have you and your frog being having vodkas? Only kidding), hypocalcemia, impaction or obstruction.

I would say more common is impaction, MBD, and protozoa parasite. If it was parasites it would be salt baths rather than sugar.

So as you can see given most of the possibilities its hard for anyone to give a true diagnosis of this when just using pictures. If you cant get a vet my suggestion is to contact your local university they may have the ability to do a quick ultrasound for you.

[KMAC]

I do think at this stage sugar is the best thing to get the prolapse to contract back, it should work eventually but surgically might be a lot quicker. I think I actually feel the same as the frog right now im on morphine due to a back injury from judo and my gut gets blocked and my treatment is lactulose (sugars) but it takes time for it to work but I get pain relief in couple of hours. So even though its not contracting straighr away I can only guess the sugar baths are providing some sort of relief?