trouble with 4 month old pacman frog, sticking legs out stiff

[jasonm96]

Hey. Your conditions seem great. I would make sure to keep the frog in the high 70s to low 80s during the day. Make sure the heat source provides adequate, usable heat, such as downwards by a heat lamp or ceramic. I used a heat mat on the wall as recommend by some for a while but realised this did not work well. Use a digital thermometer to measure temps, analogue are not the best. It sounds to me like maybe the frog has tried to aestivate. Along with the stiff posture, was there was any signs of cocooning/dried skin? Although the humidity of 60-70% should be fine for cranwell's horned frogs, I've found several hygrometers to fail after a short period of time. A good test is to make sure the substrate is moist, not dry and not wet. What size of tank and how often do you change substrate? I personally would not take to a vet unless there is one that has a good knowledge or reference on amphibians. The best thing to do is fine a good source of info on the species (I've found AVS chacoan horned frogs by Philippe de Vosjoli to be the best reference) follow by the book to make sure conditions are correct

[monster]

Hi, what brand of vitamins are you using and what is your dusting schedule? it sounds almost like he could have a bad case of MBD or it could be some kind of neurological problem which I don't think is very common but the odd frog does end up having them. I really think you may want to find a vet, it doesn't sound good to me. Also what do use for water if you don't use tap water?

[jasonm96]

I don't think MBD would cause problems when young just yet but show up with older frogs fed or kept on improper diets or conditions. I would dust every feed with young frogs though, with a high qualitiy supplement such as Repashy. Water could be a factor but if the OP has maintained toads then I'd imagine he or she would know the standard water needed for amphibians

[monster]

If the op has had his frog for 4 months and hasn't being giving proper calcium the signs would be starting to show, the first few months are the most crucial point of there life for the calcium because all the bones are growing and strengthening and because they have such a fast growth rate also. And the frog would actually be older then 4 months because you have to consider the time its spent with the breeder. Not saying this is what the problem is because they can be doing it all right because it was never mentioned.

[jasonm96]

That's definitely true, especially for horned frogs but I would expect obvious symptoms to show at a later age when the damage is done but I'm not 100% sure on this. If I were breeding them I would let them eat their siblings, may sound bad but I'd imagine this would happen in the wild and would provide a very good source of calcium and D3

[Stolzieren]

first of all thank you everyone for replying! I also went out and got a new water dish and he has actually been sitting in it for some time now, when he NEVER used to soak in it before. I always just made sure to spritz him with the spray bottle or to place him in the bowl himself. but he actually got into the bowl for the first time and soaked today! anyway I'll try to answer everything I was asked, please let me know if I forgot to reply to a question that was asked!

@monster
I use Repashy Calcium Plus for dusting, and I usually dust every few feedings, but after reading the replies it's apparent I need to be doing that more! so I will definitely up the dusting from now on. and yes I do say ABOUT 4 months because he did spend some time with the breeder as well before being shipped to me. but I've had him now for about 4 months.

also, for water for my amphibians I use bottled water only!

@jasonm96
I'm wondering if the humidity meter has gone bad because it doesn't move much anymore. I think I will get a new one asap. I usually keep the substrate damp, but not totally flooded of course.

I use digital thermometers for all of my herps. the analogue ones just. really don't give accurate readings in my experience and the experience of many others I've read.

his skin does get a bit dry, though I thought that was because he wasn't soaking adequately. as I mentioned at the beginning, I changed water bowls and he's been soaking for awhile now so hopefully the dry skin will improve, unless you do think it would have to do with him trying to aestivate.

[jasonm96]

No problem Calcium plus is the best IMO, I use it for all my animals. You have to use it at every feed though, it's been designed to provide more balanced calcium and vitamins than other supplements so it can be used this way. Bottled water is also very good. If you need to monitor it so far I've found the Zoo Med hygrometers to be good and a great thing about them is you can attach them and take them off for cleaning, then re-attach wit velcro but as long as the substrate is kept nice and moist they're probably not that important for these frogs. They shouldn't need to soak too much but at night they may use a water dish, especially if they're trying to squeeze one out.

[monster]

Hey again ya I would up the dusting but if hes getting calcium mbd shouldn't be the case. IMO Repashy calcium is one of the best if not the best. It could be something neurological almost by the sounds of it. Does his back legs ever spasm or do they just stay stiff. And with something like this again you may want to bring him to a vet for a checkup. oh and yes the zoo med ones are good or I know a lot of people use indoor 2/1's from like walmart or home depot. The honey well one is a good brand. You can put the probe in one end them sit the actual little box on the cold side and it gives you the temp and humidity of both ends. Im using one in my Bearded dragon tank and it works great.

[Stolzieren]

@jasonm96
ah I see, thank you very much! I was not dusting as much as I should've been and I feel really bad, I thought I was doing everything right but after reading other threads the symptoms seem to sound a lot like MBD. since he hasn't been eating I'm thinking I'm going to buy some liquid calcium, would this be a good idea? he's still plenty fat but he's just not interested in eating. I fed him a dusted cricket a bit ago, he tried to slap it out of his mouth but he did eat it...

@monster
I THINK they did spasm the first time he did this which was a couple days ago. they didn't spasm today but just were almost straight out and STIFF. and yes I do think I should take him to a herp vet, the vet I take my beardie to though, I don't know if he's good with frogs or not. I will have to do some research and look into the nearest frog vet. but I do have a strong feeling it's the calcium deficiency because the symptoms match and I hadn't been dusting as much as I should've been... (even though I thought I was, I'm still to blame because I should have researched more)