American green tree frog appears bloated and has light green spots

[Krististclair]

I have an American green tree frog that I got recently that just seems to be out of sorts. He suddenly developed a bunch of light green spots on his back and he seems bloated. He isn't eating and I have been trying to get him to poop so I can send out a sample to a vet out in Minnesota(the joy of no amphibian vets even vaguely close to me...)and he hasn't defacated all day nor has he eaten in quite a while. I need to figure something out so I can get to treating him...I have offered crickets, wax worms and even a small red earth worm cut in half and he still has refused it. I just bought the zilla caloric appetite inducer and it came the other day but I am leery about using it. Anyone have any tips?????

[elly]

I'm not sure how to get him to eat, aside from force feeding which is stressful. You may just have to try the appetite inducer. Even then it may take a while for him to digest and poop. I know that's a pain.

[Krististclair]

Should I dilute the appetite inducer before I use it? And if so, should I use water treated with reptisafe or can I use just regular water? I do live in town and have town water. Not sure if treated, distilled, spring or tap water is used...I just want to get SOMETHING in his belly...I'm in the process of putting paper towels in the bottom of the tank in hopes of catching some poop randomly. So maybe that can make some sort of difference....

[jasonm96]

Sounds maybe like edema, if bloated. Too much vitamin d3 in the diet can cause this or bad water quality. Would recommend using UVB (5%) instead of dietary d3 or cutting supplements down, possibly putting to much on at each feeding? Would look into your water qualitiy. Make sure temps are good as well, mid 70fs is good, too cold and may be looking big due to it being constipated.

[Krististclair]

Ok so, he's on just paper towels right now and I am able to really watch him. :/ he keeps opening his mouth occasionally like he is sucking in air and he's just in general super bloated...is there a way to tell the difference between edema, blockage, and renal failure at least by looking at him? I'm one of the unfortunate ones that doesn't have an amphibian vet for at least 3 or 4 hours or more...I am going to be contacting Dr. Frye as soon as possible as well...I'm just really worried. I haven't had him long and he's already having health issues...I feel like a terrible person...he sits in one spot for hours it seems...I left for work earlier today and came back to find him in the same exact spot and same exact position. He had his front foot on the corner of the tank and was looking out. :/ I'm just at a loss here! If he was a fish I would be golden...that's my specialty...

[Krististclair]

I treat my water with reptisafe using the 20 drops per gallon, however I add like 2 to 3 extra drops because my water is chorinated(just remembered that)and I learned that lesson when I first moved here. I only added my normal amount of aquasafe to my fish tank and lost half my tank as a result. �� I give them reptical dusted crickets once to twice a week(I could possibly be dusting them too much. I was never really shown how much you put on so I kinda dunk them back first into some of it and their back usually is covered with it.), it could be he's cold with how cold it has been up here. We have hit -40 at times recently. I live in northern ny up near the Canadian border so it gets a smidge cold lol. But I also use the recommended heat lamp for him as well. Could I be gutloading my crickets too much? I feed them a mixture of the zilla cricket and insect food and tropical fish flakes. I was told by a few people in a amphibian Facebook group that apparently that is a common choice. His soaking water gets changed daily to every other day at the very least. More often if I see feces in it. Its part of my daughter's chores. What can I do to help boost the temp and also to help with the edema or constipation? I have him in the medium size vertical exo terra tank. I don't want to let him suffer...the sheer irony of all of this is when I can finally go back to college I actually want to become a small and exotic animal veterinarian...

[Krististclair]

Also, how do I attach pictures to my replies? I want to post a few pics of him for you so you might be able to help better but it isn't letting me for some reason.

[jasonm96]

Your water could be a problem and bad water could lead to this, try use bottled spring water instead.

During the day they will just rest in the same spot, it's not until night time they will get active.

I'd recommend for dusting that you use calcium with D3 and multivitamins once or twice per week max unless using a balanced supplement like Calcium Plus. When dusting, only lightly dust them, don't coat them pure white. UVB is the best source of D3 for green tree frogs, they won't get it in the natural diet of insects. The percentage of UVB needed varies on the set up but generally a 5% should do. I then use Calcium Plus LoD every feed. Gut loading is still important and you can't over do it really.

For heating, I'm assuming you're using the 18 x 18 x 24 exo terra? On top of this you could a Zoo Med Combo Deep Dome, then use a 25W red night light bulb for heat and then the UVB in the other, this should take care of heating but if not the best way is make sure the room itself doesn't get too cold. I put a oil filled radiator in my room but I have a few frogs to keep warm.

To attach pictures you'll need to upload pics to another picture hosting site and then copy the URL.

[elly]

Sorry, I've never used an appetite stimulant and I don't know what to tell you there.

Also, on the bloating: does he seem squishy or like he's puffed up with air? If it's air, that plus the opening and closing of his mouth reminds me of what my frogs do when they shed. Is he eating his skin?

Certainly check the water, temperature, provide some form of UVB and moderate your vitamins though.

[Krististclair]

Sadly he didn't make it through the night....������ I have one other that isn't exhibiting any symptoms however I feel like I want to be safe rather than sorry...is there anything I can do to try to prevent anything from happening to my other frog? Before I went to bed last night, my green tree frog was completely covered in light green spots and pale as a sheet...I have a fecal sample from him in my freezer and am waiting for Monday to be able to ship it out to Dr. Frye...I'm seriously so upset right now...I mean I feel like I did everything right because I did all the same that I did in the past(I had a tree frog in the past but when I got pregnant with my daughter, money got tight. So rather than let my frog's care go by the wayside, I gave him to a friend of mine where he is still quite happy today) the frog I have now isn't exhibiting any symptoms of sickness at all. He's eating like a champ, as active as he normally is, and is his normal coloration so far as I can see. I'm headed to the store now to pick up a few supplies to see if I can't get something figured out to help prevent any further damage here. I just feel like an awful person...

[jasonm96]

Don't feel bad, I'm sure you've done all you could. Definitely get a 5% uvb, I'd recommend calcium plus LoD and keep temps right 72-80f and make sure humidity is around 60-70%. Imo there's not much you can do to treat frogs, most will die even with treatment because they're so delicate and may too far gone once you see signs of being ill. The key is prevention. Clean the tank and disinfect it with reptile safe disinfectent. Wouldn't recommend purchasing any WC tree frogs (assuming they were) go for captive bred, it ensures you healthy frogs and doesn't support the collecting. The only reason I got WC as I planned on breeding but half mine died and since then I didn't want to take the chance on buying more. Some good books to read are AVS popular tree frogs and tree frog by Devin Edmonds.

[Krististclair]

What are some examples of amphibian safe disinfectants? I don't want to risk using something unsafe. Also the temp is just right, it's at 80 on the dot. As for the humidity, I need a new hydrometer. My fiancee decided to "help" clean my tank today and dropped it...it ended up cracking do I won't use it anymore. I don't plan on buying any more green tree frogs for awhile. I'm pretty sad about how all this turned out... �� but yeah I guess their frogs supposedly are captive bred. I spoke with them on the phone today about it all and they claim they only get them from one breeder. Idk

[jasonm96]

Zoo meds wipe out 1 should be fine but rinse well afterwards and dry. Some others are F10 and bupar but I don't know if they're easily available in your country.

80 on the dot is fine but no higher unless cooler areas are available. Hyla cinerea American green tree frogs are seldom bred in captivity.

If you decide to get any more tree frogs I'd suggest some whites tree frogs (not in the same tank as your green) they're always captive bred and they're very hardy. Will need larger housing, UVB is a must and a basking spot.

Those books I mentioned I'd highly recommend you read, they cover all the important aspects of care and will help prevent any further disappointments.

[Krististclair]

Hmmm I haven't heard of any of those. I imagine I can order them online though. That or I might just hop the border again and pick up what I need. With the Canadian dollar down so low shopping over there is pretty cheap are there any meds you can suggest for me to get and keep on hand for the future? I have never had a single problem in the past so I was kinda caught off guard with all of this. I'm quite ashamed to admit that. I have an arsenal of fish antibiotics and treatments as well as testing equipment but not nearly as much for my frogs. I actually breed endlers lol. As I said, if he had been a fish, I could have probably pinpointed it right off the bat. :/ also I'm going to go look on Amazon for that book as well. I don't think that I'll be able to get it around here.

[jasonm96]

Panacur can be useful for treating worms in amphibians but will be best used according to vets dosage recommendations and should not be used unless necessary. I've heard toothache gel spread on the back of the frog can be used to euthanize sick amphibians. If you have the money, the book amphibian medicine and captive husbandry by wright and whitaker tells you about the treatment of amphibians but is very expensive, it's something I want to get for myself at one point. It's best to try prevent any problems, most amphibians when kept right are hardy. Read up in books (not online) about the care and make sure everything's 100% then select healthy captive amphibians. As your new, go for the hardiest ones to begin with, as you can make mistakes and learn but not kill your 'phibs in the process. Amphibians are more complicated at first than they're made out to be. The pet shops probably don't tell you this because it may put customers off buying them but they're pretty complex and amazing creatures, I learn new things about them everyday and I've never been so interested in reading in my life! There's always a starting point and unfortunately mistakes make us take the time to learn more and prevent any from happening in the future.

[Krististclair]

One more question, I am looking at hydrommeters online and have come across one that displays both temperature and humidity at the same time. But it's for measuring the outdoor temp and humidity. Any chance.it could still work the same as a reptile hydrometer? Its just a few dollars more and I figure it would be awesome to be able to see both at the same time. The link below is what I am looking at. It just popped up when I searched for hydrometers
http:// http://m.ebay.com/itm/Digita...840?nav=SEARCH

[jasonm96]

The link didn't work...

The thing is, when you use a thermometer and hygrometer next to each other (I'd imagine you'd be putting it near some sort of heat source to measure its temperature) whilst doing this, you're going to get an inaccurate overall ambient humidity of the terrarium, as the hot side will be dryer due to the heat source than the middle or cold side away from it. I personally use the exo terra digital thermometers as I've found them to be accurate and they let you access the highest and lowest the temperature has went to. For the humidity I've recently stumbled on a good product. Normal hygrometers stuck on permanently can muck up when cleaning the tank due to the water, however the zoo med analogue hygrometers have velcro pads so can be removed during cleaning, so prevents damage. I've had no luck with digital hygrometers. I'd highly recommend both these products. Put the thermometer under the heat source and the hygrometer in the middle of the tank for best readings.

[Krististclair]

Awesome. I'll look for that then. I already placed an order for the two books you suggested and the zoo med cleaner. Should be here by the end of the week ☺ I still have the paper towels in the bottom of my tank( I'm still kinda worried about my other frog so I'm playing it safe for now)
I am probably going to do this for about a week.

[Krististclair]

Thanks for all of your help by the way. I really appreciate it. I'm a member of a frog group on Facebook and they aren't as friendly or helpful really...plus they are mostly into poison dart frogs and more exotic frogs than my green tree frogs. :/

[jasonm96]

Yeah paper towels should be good, just make sure to clean them everyday, they get really dirty quickly. If a week or two go by and your other frog is still alive then you should be all good, I've found usually any sick frogs won't last the week.

No problem, happy I could help. Poison dart frogs are cool but they're overrated IMO and the simple frogs like american greens are just as good, if you're a night owl like me.