Monkey Frog weight average and maturity questions

[Monkey Business]

Not looking for shortcuts for my sake; I just know that I would be pretty nervous placing the frogs in such harsh conditions for so long. I know that is what happens in nature, but as we know, in nature a percentage (possibly a large percentage) of them don't make it.

One last question for now; do the nuptial pads come and go only when the frogs are in the mood, or do they keep them once developed?

[Diver]

They come and go. Making sexing that bit more tricky until you REALLY know

I'm not sure the cooling period is particularly hard for them, just need to be sure that they are 100% healthy and well fed beforehand. I know a breeder in Europe who took his as low as 10C last year with no detrimental effects. They'll eat very little while cold though, so yes any animal that you have any doubts about would be better kept in hotter conditions (which are also pretty harsh by most frog's standards!)

[Lija]

Well you guys covered all basics here, except - you can not have " half cycled frog" and just to put frogs in the rainchamber and hope it all will work out - not going to happen. Cycling is a process everybody is doing a bit differently, but everybody is applying the same principle - to provide frogs with environment that would mimic their natural habitat as close as possible including seasonal changes. And as in a wild all changes come gradually - fall-winter-spring-summer, so your husbandry needs to reflect that including length of daylight, humidity, temps. Frogs have to be healthy - vet check/fecals, etc. Then they have to be sexually mature, both females and males, then you have to have the numbers ( general rule at least 2 males for each female) and the more frogs the better.

I suggest you wait, reseach their habitat, natural cycle, start cycling now. Next winter is going to be your pre breeding winter and in spring you can give it a shot when barometric pressure is low and it's rainy season outside.

To summarize- there is a reason why not many people were successful in breeding waxies, they are difficult to breed, easy to keep in dry climates. And as Diver said you can not take any shortcuts or speed up the process, patience is a key.

[Monkey Business]

Appreciate the feedback. I didn't intend to "half-cycle" them, just got prematurely excited when the males got pads and were calling

Pretty certain that I have three males and one female so that is good. (I really want to post pics but am just confounded on how to do it.) All vet checked and fecals negative. Are you suggesting to cycle them now even though they won't breed until next year? Sort of for practice for both of us?

I can do the gradual changes pretty easily (everything is relative!) by manipulating the lights via the timers and utilizing my warehouse space which stays about 60-65 degrees without heat.

My biggest concern is that we do not have a "rainy season" here in Socal. For all the hype about El Nino, we had TWO days of rain. I am going to have to fake it the best I can with recordings of storms and heavy misting; I know the frogs can tell the difference but I hope that by replicating all the other conditions, they will give me a break on that one.

[Lija]

Yes, you can start now by lowering temps( gradually, slowly) and minimazing amount of day light, feeding more. Then when you go through the year, mimic seasonal changes in their natural habitat. See the thing is, much like with some other harder to breed species even if somebody will give you step by step instruction ( not likely), it might not be a success for you. It's pretty much trial and error road and what works for one might not be working for the other. Good luck!

[Monkey Business]

Thanks Lija for the non-judgmental answer I know it's hard to tell the nutters from the serious folks online.

I feel that working with these guys is a privilege and responsibility and will do everything in my power to replicate their natural environment first for their health and wellbeing. My interest in breeding them is that I feel that every one that comes into the trade is one LESS collected from the wild. It is the reason I chose this challenging species to work with. The second reason is that realistically looking at the climate where I live, this is the frog most likely to thrive. Conditions such as a humid environment would be too difficult to achieve uniformly (I know this well, as I keep hermit crabs and it took me almost a year to dial in their environment to be self-sustaining.)

So thanks again!

[Lija]

Yes, I understand what you are saying, loved to work with waxies when I had them, they are one of the most unique frogs out there. And the thing with waxies is that it is close to impossible to get them, even wc and I really hope it will work out for you.
I live in Calgary, in winter it is 10% ambient humidity at home, but it is not impossible to achieve humidity if needed. Mist King, fogger plugged into hydrotherm do wonders. You can do lots of things with little creativity.

one more thing. I found that light spray of a tank once in a few days was really working well with them and on most of the days they would soak in a water dish.

regarding TB - that is not common. TB in most cases is species specific, but I did have mycobacterium Marinum in my colony ( that is how I lost them all). That bacteria is genetically similar to human TB, but it's not the same. Waxies are more susceptible to skin bacterial infections and respiratory infections, but same applies to any low humidity animal kept in stagnant and humid environment. One thing to watch though is stress levels and full spectrum light with enough UVB.