New here, w/questions

[eati]

I recently got 3 African Dwarf Frogs and set them up in a 5-gallon, then purchased 3 more from the same (large chain) store about 10 days later, and put all of them in a 10-gallon aquarium, using biological media from my cycled 36 gallon fish aquarium (literally putting all the little stone media I could fit in the filter bag). The filter is a Whisper internal filter.

They are on sand substrate with mostly live plants (Cryptocorne Wendii) plus a couple of silk plants, with small terra cotta plants and a couple of aquarium small bridge "ornaments" as additional hiding places. Light is a Marineland single LED brand light. Temperature is around 75 Fahrenheit.

Everything was going ok for a few days and even heard one of my frogs buzzing (singing). Everything was ok for a few to several days, then one of the frogs was just acting crazy, very active and swimming all over the place and didn't seem to want to eat. I think this same frog died within 48 hours. Now I'm sure the little frog was trying to tell me something. I did take the frog back and got a replacement frog and put him/her in with the others. This was on Thursday I think.

I had assumed that using cycled media would work for having a cycled tank. I tested the water and found ammonia and nitrite. I have put a lot of food in there on a daily basis in an attempt to make sure all are eating. I am attempting to train them to a feeding dish and I have tried to target feed with a turkey baster but the food goes everywhere and this is what I am assuming caused, or help to cause, the ammonia and nitrite levels to rise to unsafe levels. I tried ReptoMin floating sticks but due to that food floats, it didn't work well. I am feeding ReptoMin Frog, which is a small sinking food, as well as some fish food in granule form, which they like more than the ReptoMin Frog food. I soak all dry food for several minutes before feeding it. I have also tried OSI shrimp pellets but they are hard and take a long time to soak up water and the frogs don't seem to like them well. Tonight, I tried frozen/thawed bloodworms and at least 4 frogs had a feast, and one frog really stuffed itself. Another frog didn't take interest and just wanted to float at the top. The other frog spit out the bloodworms I tried to feed it!

Since I found ammonia and nitrite, I did a 30% water change, followed by two more 30% water changes an hour apart. I did this that way to avoid a large water change -- did a 90% water change recently on my fish tank due to high nitrate, and bubbles got on the fish and stressed them out, and now they have Ick. Anyway, I did another 30% water change Friday, and another one this evening. I tested ammonia and nitrite levels again and they have increased. I also decreased the feeding amount but am worried they are not getting enough food. But I am just frustrated that this tank is cycled (or handling the excess food probably) and the ammonia and nitrite levels do not seem to be coming down.

I plan to go to a local fish store and get some live bacteria to help try to cycle this tank. Is there anything else that I'm not doing to help with this issue and help avoid any more frog losses? Any hints on feeding them would also be appreciated.

I also got 2 clawed frogs recently, froglets that are the size of dwarfs ... from someone that listed them on a site on the internet. Sadly, they are dyed. Don't like that, but they needed a home. They are in a 28-gallon bowfront tank (basically 20H footprint) that is filled about 2/3 full right now with a Whisper Internal Filter that the media bag was also stuffed with media from my 36 gallon fish tank. They are eating ReptoMin pellets great, the problem is the frog may not grab fast enough from the turkey baster and I end up "chasing down" a floating pellet to try again. I may end up ordering sinking food for them. But, like my dwarf frog tank, there is rising ammonia and nitrite levels.

Another question ... the "plastic canvas" that is sold in craft stores ... is that safe to use with frogs or fish? I figured I could make a tube out of it, and use aquarium sealant to attach it to a rock or two to create a hiding place, plus could tie java fern, java moss, or anubia to it.

[celticstarb]

The bubbles you get after a water change are due to dissolved gasses in the water. The best way to avoid this is by preparing the new water the night before you change the water. Run an air stone in the new water as it "ages" overnight. Of course that isn't always possible in an emergency. In that case, make sure to run an air stone in the tank for several hours after the water change. I don't like air stones for clawed frogs due to their highly developed lateral line system.Adding cycled media from another tank is a good way to jumpstart a cycle, but it won't completely cycle a tank. In a fully cycled tank, beneficial bacteria will be on literally every surface in the tank including the top of substrate, plants, decorations, and the glass as well as in the filter. It will take a few weeks to reach that number of bacteria. Unfortunately, these bacteria require ammonia and nitrites to become established. I suggest buying a 5 or 10 gallon quarantine tank and do daily water changes until the display tank is cycled. If you are talking about the cross stitch canvas, it should be ok to use. I use it in my tanks without any issues. PVC makes great hiding spots for frogs. Don't use the light weight PVC as it floats. Sand the sharp edges of the cuts.If dyed frogs make it to subadult size, they will lose the dye and should be ok. The biggest problem with dyed frogs is that many, if not most, seldom make it to subadult size. The 28 gallon tank will be a good size for them their whole life.As a personal preference, I don't use any pellet foods for DWARF frogs. I believe that frozen/thawed foods reduce the chance of bloat. I use bloodworms, mysis shrimp, and daphnia. Make sure to rinse the food after it thaws. A varied diet is best, as some dwarf frogs are very picky. Mine eat out of a shallow ceramic dish. Also, the ammonia and nitrites can cause them to go off food. Try to avoid fish foods, as these are not nutritionally balanced for amphibians.I do use sinking xenopus pellets for the CLAWED frogs. Xenopus Express sells a sinking food for under $4 a pound and will last you a year with only 2 frogs.

[eati]

Thank you for the information. I did read a few places that dyed frogs can die within a few months but thought that may be the exception rather than the rule.

Due to temperature differences of the water and my home temperature (as well as a suitable container) it is not easy for me to prepare the water ahead of time. The tank that got the bubbles is a fish tank (36-gallon) ... but won't do that big of water change again. Are you talking 100% water changes in a quarantine tank or how big of a water change? Unless it's a big change it seems like I could try to do in in their tank. Also sounds like you'd almost need two tanks of the same size ... and move the frogs to the other while you change the water and have the water prepared (gases escape) for the other. But moving the frogs would be stressful to them.

I found a (dwarf) frog upside down in the feeding dish this morning (weak, but alive) plus another one that is weak and they are are now in a little container ("breeding trap" type container without the trap) floating in the tank. Sigh. If my fish tank didn't have a Ick outbreak, I'd put them in there and still target feed and cycle their tank as the fish tank just houses guppies, platies, and cory cats.

I was aware a fully cycled tank has bacteria everywhere, but I thought that the media I used would suffice for the frogs. I'm still going to get more live bacteria today and hope that helps.

[eati]

More questions:

1) How much food should I be giving the dwarf frogs? Should I allow them to "stuff" themselves? What about the clawed frogs? The clawed frogs currently get about one "baby" sized Reptomin pellet (about 1/4 inch) a day.

2) How long do the dyed clawed frogs usually live?

I lost the little dwarf frog I found on it's back, going to return it and get my money back.

[celticstarb]

Unfortunately, dwarf frogs aren't normally cared for properly at fish stores, so they often don't last long after the stress of the ride home and acclimation to a new tank. I let my dwarfs eat as much as they want then siphon out any uneaten food. I replace the water with aged water, which equals about a 25% water change weekly.

For water changes in a small tank, I prepare the water in 5 gallon buckets with an air stone and small heater. For my large tanks, I use a trash can, heater, and powerhead.

The clawed frogs will eat much more than that. The should be slightly plump after feeding. Slowly add more food every day until you figure out your particular frogs needs. I would think at their current size, they should eat about 2 reptomin sticks each. I use the sinking xenopus pellets which are small, so it's hard for me to estimate reptomin feedings. But if in doubt, it's better to underfeed than overfeed.

The issue with dyed frogs is that they have a tendency of only living a few months as you read. Unfortunately, this is the norm for dyed frogs. If you get them past about 4 months, they will have a better chance of survival. Good tank maintenance and the right food will help them get past this point.

In the QT you can get by with 50% daily water changes. I like to do water changes either before the first daily feeding or after the last feeding.

Just a heads up, aquatic frogs will produce much more wastes than fish will. So larger filters are very helpful. If you are using a power filter on your dwarf tank, make sure to cover the intake with a sponge or panty hose to avoid broken toes and legs.

[eati]

Again, thanks for the info. A curiosity question for you though, how do you get your prepared water back into your big tanks? It makes sense the way you do it, but I can't carry more than a couple of gallons at a time. For my bigger tanks I have a hose I attach to the sink and refill it that way.

The lady I talked to today at the pet store said it seems to be hit or miss with these frogs, and I can see why. Maybe the best bet, if one were to purchase dwarf frogs at such places, is to get them when they first get in.

I lost both frogs mentioned above. In taking them back, it was discovered that the trio I thought I bought at the time the cashier only charged me for one. Did end up getting two more (lively for now) frogs, and they are in a 3-gallon tank right now. I think I'll just see what the bacteria culture I got today does for the ammonia/nitrite levels before setting up another tank I really don't have room for. I don't have much faith in the "bacteria in a bottle" with cycling an aquarium, though. But this store is a locally owned fish store and they know their stuff (NOT the same place I got the frogs).

I do plan on ordering the xenopus pellets, and if the clawed frogs do not make it, may buy from Xenopus Express, maybe X. tropicalis (sp?) ... as this may be the "middle ground" as far as frog size goes, although I love the looks of the wild type and the reticulated albino of X. laevis (sp). But that is possibly for the future. Right now I have enough to take care of.

[eati]

Attempting to add an image ... this is the dwarf frog who has stuffed itself for the last two days ...


My setup for the dwarf frogs:

[celticstarb]

The trash can is on rollers to make moving it easier. I have a piece of vinyl hose I attach to the circulating pump in the trash can. Each tank is marked with a permanent marker so I know how much water to siphon out. The clawed frog tank is at floor level to help keep it cooler, so I just start a siphon from the trash can.

I have another trashcan the same size that is hooked up to the RODI unit, but I only use that for my saltwater tanks. I use dechlorinated tap water for the frogs, as they do better in hard water.

Your tank looks great! Nice job decorating it. Just as a precaution, you will want to cover the filter intake with some pantie hose.

The bacteria cultures are hit and miss. Which one did you get? ATM colony, Doctor Tim's One and Only, and FritzZyme Turbo Start 700 are the ones I would recommend. Others use non aquatic bacteria which will indeed convert the ammonia and nitrites, but will die after a week or so.

The frog in the picture looks good.

[eati]

The bacteria culture is AquaLife Activate. They had a couple of other brands, but don't think they had any you mentioned. I added a dose to each tank on Sunday. Monday's testing revealed ammonia had gone down but the nitrite level was still high, so did 2 30% water changes on each tank and re-dosed the tanks for the water change amount. Tonight's testing revealed about the same levels. Ammonia is around .50 ppm, Nitrite is at least 2 ppm.

Thanks for the compliment on the tank! I will be covering the filter intake soon. As far as the frog goes, she/he is eager to eat ... I wish the others (dwarfs) had it's appetite (clawed frogs would stuff themselves if I let them ... did increase to 2 reptomin pellets each).

[celticstarb]

Try picking up some frozen blood worms for your dwarfs.. They will go crazy for blood worms! I also use live California black worms. Black worms are fairly easy to culture and will stay alive in your tank until the frogs eat them.

The clawed frogs will relish night crawlers. Just cut a worm into 1 inch sections and feed it to your clawed frogs. A varied diet will help them survive to adulthood.

As far as cycling, the bacteria that convert ammonia will establish before the ones that convert nitrites. Unfortunately, the water changes are counterproductive to the tank cycling. In order for the bacteria to establish, they need to eat; and they eat ammonia and nitrites. So seeing some ammonia and nitrites is good for the bacteria, but bad for the frogs. Have you tested for nitrates? If you have nitrates, then you have a partial cycle, and hopefully it shouldn't take too much longer to have the tank fully cycled.

[eati]

Just a quick update as I have to head to work ...

I've been feeding a variety of frozen foods for the last few days to my dwarfs ... picked up a freshwater variety pack [bloodworms, brine shrimp, Feeding Frenzy, Emerald Green]. The one dwarf frog eats anything eagerly. The others, bloodworms seem to be the best but they lose interest after a few worms.

I've not tested water nor changed water for the last couple of days, and lost 2 more dwarf frogs. Honestly, I'm not sure if I will "survive" this (and keep frogs). I will probably test water tonight.

[eati]

Just tested the water for ammonia and nitrite. Ammonia levels are zero or close to zero in both tanks, it looks like nitrite is at least 2 ppm in my 28-gallon (clawed frogs), and 4 - 5 ppm in my 10-gallon (dwarf frogs). This is using API test kits. I will test nitrate later, but expect there to be at least some due to I put media from cycled tanks in the filters. My tap water tested at 5 ppm for nitrate.

I'm going to the LFS and seeing what they say about this and my fish issues, and go from there. Yesterday's frog death hit me hard, especially since I feel I have been trying my best to address the water issues when I found out about it, and trying my best to make sure all frogs eat.

[eati]

As best as I can tell, nitrate in my 10 is around 10 ppm, and nitrate in my 28 is around 5 ppm. Not sure what to think ... would have expected it a little higher if the media I put in originally still had live bacteria (did sit for several hours in the water from my filter in a container before I set up the tanks).

[eati]

freshwater variety pack [bloodworms, brine shrimp, Feeding Frenzy, Emerald Green]. The one dwarf frog eats anything eagerly. The others, bloodworms seem to be the best but they lose interest after a few worms.

Freshwater Frenzy and Emerald Entree should be the last two ones, lol. Tonight's feeding was 100% bloodworms with the feeding response ... "Ms. Hungry" gorging herself (I say she because I suspect it is a female, but don't know), 2 of them getting a few bloodworms then losing interest, and the other one didn't seem interested at all. I get this gut feeling I may have just one dwarf frog (if that) survive the cycling.

[celticstarb]

You may want to try live food


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[celticstarb]

Here is a link to buy black worms. They are some of the best live feeders for dwarf and clawed frogs. Uneaten worms will live in the substrate until eaten.

http://www.aquaticfoods.com/LiveBlackwormsM.html

They are a little pricey but well worth the money. Just make sure to follow the care instructions that come with them. They can also be cultured easily.

[eati]

Thank you for the link for black worms. My 28-gallon has completed it's cycle, with zero ammonia and nitrite. My 10-gallon has zero ammonia, and nitrite took a nosedive from probably 5 ppm to 2 ppm in a day and the next day was .25 and it has held steady for the past few days. I did clean off some brown algae off a few leaves of some plants and off a bit in the back, not sure if that is that is the cause it is still not zero? I am down to one dwarf frog and not sure if I will get more (guess which one ... I have named "her" Spice). My clawed frogs are still alive, but one isn't as eager to eat in the last few days as usual. I have been hand feeding them the reptomin pellets for several days now. The one ate two pellets and didn't want any more, and even spit some out. The other one stuffs itself as usual ... this frog actually comes up to my hand and searches around my hand for food.