Tarapoto behavior

[robthechef]

I live in Vancouver and about 2.5 years ago I bought a pair of Tarapoto's from a local pet-store. I set them up in 18x24x36 Exo terra: They settled quickly and within no time they where breeding furiously. I ended up having about 15 frogs and froglets in the in closure.
Weirdly It seemed that the offspring the pair produced where all males.
Has anyone ever experienced this. I've heard of some reptile species's sex being determined by the temp the eggs are incubated at but never with amphibians. Does anyone know what the reason for this could be?

Then about 6 months ago I moved and I stupidly did not notice that the cable and pipe opening at the top of the terrarium was big enough for them to get out. So tragically most them including my one female escaped and died :.(. I was heartbroken. I ended up having only 5 male frogs. After this happened the remaining males also stopped calling.
I assumed that it had something to do with that they did not have a female to impress.

In the meantime I've been trying to get the guys some female company. There is a bit of a scarcity with this morph here in Vancouver but I did manage to find a local hobbyist and bought what they thought was a male and a female.
I introduced them into my tank and I soon noticed after that my newest addictions where both calling. So now I have 7 males.

The calling of the new males has really rattled up the other guys and has ignited all sorts of turf wars and wresting matches. I'm probably going to have to separate then again to bring back some peace.

What is also interesting is that only the new guys are calling.

My partner suggested that I probably only had females and introduced 2 males. That would explain the lack of calling. I think this is improbable but perhaps I'm just really **** at sexing. I might be wrong but the type of aggressive wresting behavior as seen in the attached video is male on male right? Or are females also aggressive toward each other?...I will also try take some pics and attach them and ask any of you guys your sexing opinion.
Forgive the poor quality but they hate the paparazzi...

Thanks for taking the time to read this any opinions or inputs are appreciated
Also if anyone knows of Tarapoto's in BC I would love to hear from you.
Cheers
Rob



https://vimeo.com/147784898


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[flybyferns]

Hello,

It is 'suggested' that it's best to keep them in pairs.
Having said that... I have vanzolnii , imitator, variabilis and sirensis being kept in groups of 4 ( various sex ratios)
All in exo 18x18x24 high. With out any aggression.
The way I put them together was: purchased the frogs from separate breeders ....QT them all separately... then put them into the enclosure at one at a time. They were all under a year old when doing so; of which I think make a big difference.

The likely and apparent reason for lack of witnessed / aggressive behavior before your move was
because the clutch mates were all growing up together.

IMO, if there is... for example... a 2.2 group or even 3.1 group you would witness all the males calling at some pont.

Your video certinally looks to be male/male agression.
You could give it some time. It may all calm down-just keep an eye on them.
Give them plenty of cover and an easy way to flee.
It looks like the were trapped behind something?
Hard to tell in the video.

Otherwise seperate them and try again in a month or so .....after the male in the lg enclosure has established himself.

If you should end up w additional breeding... offspring or tads should be removed as you do no want offspring breeding w parents.
You especially don't want female offspring breeding w its male parent.

Sorry to hear about the escapes.... Yes.. the cord slides on the exo terra enclosures need to be closed.
I silicone mine in the shut position leaving only the mist tubing entering through one side (one tubing opening).

Just some thoughts

[robthechef]

Thank you for all the advice! I've been keeping an eye on them and things have settled down a lot. Aaaaand to my delight (I might be wrong) but it looks like I might of had a female all along. One of the new guys is spending allot of time courting with the frog in the 3rd pic.That one has always been a bit chubbier than the rest of them.The reason I did not think it was female is that I did also see her/him partake in some wresting.
But my fingers crossed!

Regarding giving them space to escape. I share that concern with you. I have a coco fiber background that they can get behind and I'm finding it impossible to prevent them from getting in there. So because they have settled down quite a bit I'm leaving it for now. I am planning to redo that whole setup with a proper background and iron out all the kinks that I made the first time round.

Forgive my ignorance by 2.2 or 3.2 frog group do you mean male to female ratio?
I've seen other decimal numberings of frogs in the forums. I assume this has to to with the genetics. Could you perhaps point me in the right direction where u could learn more about this?

Also good point about them being peaceful before because they grew up together I was thinking the same thing myself.

If these guys pair off and start laying it's my intention is to separate them to a private tank I have set up for them.

Thanks again



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[flybyferns]

Sounds like they will settle down
If the cocoa fiber is not siliconed to the back or side glass...just yank it !!!!
They don't need it, they might get hurt, you can see them better, and they love to climb on the glass
It will be thier favorite place to poop. hahahah
If after pulling it off..... leave the stuck parts....moss will grow.

As for the pairing off.... I would move them now if you see that they are interesed.
Then....things may really move along.
You may notice the male chasing another male.
Nab the chubby one and one you have whitinessed calling.
They will do the rest... lol

Most of my tanks have NO backgrounds.
I which I could throw a photo up ...but photos are broken, for the most part--- go to 'Frogforum'
facebook or to my facebook link for lots of photos.
As for learning more..... simply ……keep reading.