Results 1 to 14 of 14

Thread: Howdy! And... trouble with new Pacman baby?

  1. #1
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Nationality
    [Canada]
    Location
    Toronto, Ontario
    Posts
    13

    Default Howdy! And... trouble with new Pacman baby?

    Hey folks! Finally got around to signing up after lurking here for the past few months. Now let me torture you all with a terribly long first post!

    So about two weeks ago now, I bought an Albino Cranwelli/Pacman frog from my local PetSmart. Already having Kaiju, my Pyxie (a Dwarf, though TWO trade-show dealers assured me he was a Giant...*grumbles*) I couldn't resist getting a Pacman as well! I love the fact they're known for being aggressive little buggers with an appetite to match -- but so far my little Jaeger (see a trend here? ) has been anything but, and has me rather worried.

    Here's his setup:

    • ExoTerra Mini Tall 12"x12"x18" terrarium; ExoTerra Small Rainforest UTH attached at rear side panel. Two live plants and a sideways pot for shelter/decoration, one small water dish.
    • ExoTerra 25W Night Heat lamp + ExoTerra 60W Daytime Heat lamp (Daytime lamp on 12hr on/off cycle); no UVB bulbs!
    • Temperature maintained at 80-82F daytime, 77-79F nighttime, measured via ZooMed digital thermometer, probed under substrate near rear glass/UTH. Secondary ZooMed combo analog thermometer/humidity meter, just above substrate at left-front side of tank, coincides with readings.
    • Humidity maintained between 70-80%, misted daily w/regular water dish changes. All water used in tank is treated tapwater.
    • Substrate: Eco-Earth, varied 2.5-3.5" deep; about 3/4" of hydroballs separated underneath it via screening to avoid waterlogging of substrate.


    Hopefully I've provided enough details regarding the setup, but let me know if any other info would be useful. So here's where I'm concerned:


    For the life of me, I can not get this frog to eat! The day I took him home, I had him housed in a large critter keeper and was able to get him to eat a couple of smaller crickets, dusted of course; the next day he took two small superworms. (I've since read that superworms may not be good for him at his current size, unlike Kaiju who massacred the things when he was only slightly larger...) Day after that we moved him into his "proper" home. Since then however, I think the only thing he's eaten in well over a week has been a cricket or two, and has otherwise spent the majority of his time burrowed. We leave a few crickets in the tank for him, but it doesn't seem like he's interested in them. I've tried offering silkworms, small hornworms, and cut-up red wigglers, and he either ignores them (to the point they can freely crawl all over him) or hops away/hides from them. Even with the "rub food along the mouth" trick, same result. Have tried feeding both in his tank, and in the critter keeper, and either at day or night time.

    I've looked for discolouration or signs of impaction, and other than his underside being a bit pink at his rear legs/butt-end (which I read is normal), I see nothing physically wrong.

    Kaiju had an amazing appetite when he was not much larger than this guy, and I know Pacs are known for being even more voracious eaters... though maybe not so much the Cranwelli's like Jaeger... I know this may be a stress/new home thing and they can go without eating for several days at times; but I'm worried that for still being a baby, this guy is starving himself to death for some reason. Is there something here I'm missing, or is this normal?

    I'd love to hear your advice. Hoping I'm just worrying too much and obsessing over nothing, but this has me thinking I may have been sold a sick or poorly-eating frog.

    Here are some photos of Jaeger and his current setup. The dish looks dirty as I had just dumped some dirt in it by accident, don't worry, it's always kept clean. :P










  2. # ADS
    Circuit advertisement
    Join Date
    Always
    Location
    Advertising world
    Posts
    Many
     

  3. #2
    100+ Post Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Nationality
    [United Kingdom]
    Location
    Scotland
    Age
    27
    Posts
    1,134
    Blog Entries
    1
    Picture Albums: Member Photo Albums

    Default Re: Howdy! And... trouble with new Pacman baby?

    Hi, there's a few problems I can see which could be causing your frog not to eat.
    -Your heat mat is covering too much of the wall
    -it's not on a thermostat, it's probably too hot for your frog
    -thermometer probe should be directly on the glass where the heat mat is attached - not under the substrate, which will give an incorrect reading.

    Another thing, a naturalistic set up is not appropriate for a Horned frog, as they produce far too much waste for this system to work. You also don't need a drainage layer, the frog will appreciate being able to burrow down to moist soil. Just use fake plants, as you'd probably need florescent lighting for real ones to survive. If you do have luck though, leave them in their pots so you can remove them easily as you clean the tank.

    What I'd suggest you do is basically start again. Use heat mat (on a thermostat) covering half the wall of one side of the tank. Take the lights off and just use the night lamp, you may also want to provide a lower drop at night time, 75F should be fine. You may not need any heating at all at night but if it drops below 70F in your house, get a thermostat with a night time setting so you can have the heat mat on at night

    Jason

  4. #3
    100+ Post Member monster's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Nationality
    [Canada]
    Location
    Barrie,ON
    Posts
    1,326

    Default Re: Howdy! And... trouble with new Pacman baby?

    Move your frog to a quieter room and cover 3 sides of his enclosure so he cant see out. That looks like your living room in the background and a computer beside so im thinking it can be a busy place at times in your house. The noises and traffic and visibility of people and other pets if you have them will seriously stress them out. And stress lowers their immune system making them vulnerable to other illnesses. You should always keep these guys in a low traffic room. Also even though you say you don't think hes impacted when was the last time you found a poop?

  5. #4
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Nationality
    [Canada]
    Location
    Toronto, Ontario
    Posts
    13

    Default Re: Howdy! And... trouble with new Pacman baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by jasonm96 View Post
    -Your heat mat is covering too much of the wall
    -it's not on a thermostat, it's probably too hot for your frog
    ... Take the lights off and just use the night lamp, ... but if it drops below 70F in your house, get a thermostat with a night time setting so you can have the heat mat on at night
    Jason, the UTH is the smallest size available, sitting at the bottom edge of the glass, and other than moving it an inch left or right (which seems pointless and would destroy & waste the heat mat now) there's nothing I can do to reduce its coverage. I will move the probe and see what it reads above ground, though I've never seen it exceed 82F when checked with temperature guns, and the ExoTerra Rainforest pads are supposed to self-limit to around 80F to begin with. If it turns out to be much higher than that, I'll definitely look into a thermostat. If anything, we've had to supplement the heating rather than limit it, as our building tends to get rather cold this time of the year. We run a half dozen tanks year round with the Rainforest pads in them, all probed and consistently in the 80F range without use of thermostats, and again most of those using at least a basic fluorescent and/or heating bulb to supplement when necessary. Granted, most of those have the UTH under the substrate as they're non-burrowing reptile tanks.

    As for the setup -- this seems to be controversial. Some people say the plants help process waste (Pothos plants were actually recommended for Pyxie/Pacman frog tanks, though that's not what I have), maintain humidity and provide cover. They're thriving so far in the tank so I would like to leave them in there unless that changes and/or the frog becomes too large to share the space, though at that point it'll probably be moved to a bigger tank anyway. We have several live-planted tanks now and have had good luck with them, one of those being the Pyxie's 50/50 split tank, which has both semi-aquatic and terrestrial plants thriving in it, even though the dummy tends to trample them from time to time. :P


    Quote Originally Posted by monster View Post
    Move your frog to a quieter room and cover 3 sides of his enclosure so he cant see out. ... Also even though you say you don't think hes impacted when was the last time you found a poop?
    That's actually in the works as I just obtained a suitable tank stand for him yesterday. Despite where the tank is right now, it's actually pretty quiet out here most of the time and I wanted to try and keep him in view from my desk -- but we're going to be covering the sides of the tank and moving him to a quieter/darker area regardless. Hard to say regarding poop-finding, I know he had one the day we put him in the tank, and I *think* I found some last week but it's hard to tell from the damp substrate. We've given him some soaking time in treated water a few times the past week, but nothing at those times at least...
    My little monsters: 1. Kaiju: Dwarf Pyxie frog (believed male) -- 2. Jaeger: C.Cranwelli/Albino Pacman (unknown gender) ...so far!

  6. #5
    100+ Post Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Nationality
    [United Kingdom]
    Location
    Scotland
    Age
    27
    Posts
    1,134
    Blog Entries
    1
    Picture Albums: Member Photo Albums

    Default Re: Howdy! And... trouble with new Pacman baby?

    The thing is, that is heating the entire tank, as soon as he comes above substrate then he's getting heated. Heat mats are only ever meant to cover half of the tank, be on the wall or on the side. Simply get a smaller heat mat, they're not expensive and doesn't have to be ET. It's better to get ones without the adhesive backing so you can reposition them at anytime and just use insulation tape around the edges to stick it on.

    Plants do process waste but not as much as a Horned frog produces. People that do living vivariums use small species like Dart frogs or small tree frogs like Red Eyes which don't produce a lot of waste, therefore can be broke down easily. Most people keep Horned frogs in easy to clean set ups to prevent waste building up.

  7. #6
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Nationality
    [Canada]
    Location
    Toronto, Ontario
    Posts
    13

    Default Re: Howdy! And... trouble with new Pacman baby?

    To update on this, I moved the digital probe above-ground and directly against the rear glass, and shut off both the day + night lights overnight as an experiment. The lighting dome/hood are still on the tank, but I may remove them today/tonight to see how much that affects temperature/humidity. I will not be moving the UTH yet for the obvious reason that I don't want to destroy it unless I absolutely have to.

    It's actually pretty warm in my apartment right now, and that in mind: The glass the UTH is on currently reads 84.6F, and the ambient temperature according to the analog thermometer by the front, is about 75F. I could probably drop the heat transfer from the UTH a few degrees with a simple decorative object at the back wall, if needed, and may do so anyway just to hide the ugly heat pad. Otherwise, a thermostat will be a consideration if it's actually needed. Also will try unplugging the UTH and seeing how the tank holds with no heat source, or with just the overhead lighting...

    I'm actually rather surprised how *little* the ambient temperature has dropped without the lights on. Would definitely have thought they were heating the tank up a bit more than that, though again, it's warmer than it had been the previous several days.

    All that said, the little bugger was actually sitting up on top of the substrate when I came home this morning. I *think* I still had a cricket or two left alive in the tank last night, and if so, I can't find them -- so he may have actually eaten something. He wouldn't accept any food when I tried offering, and eventually burrowed back down again, so I'll leave him alone again for a bit.
    My little monsters: 1. Kaiju: Dwarf Pyxie frog (believed male) -- 2. Jaeger: C.Cranwelli/Albino Pacman (unknown gender) ...so far!

  8. #7
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Nationality
    [Canada]
    Location
    Toronto, Ontario
    Posts
    13

    Default Re: Howdy! And... trouble with new Pacman baby?

    Jaeger has been doing well since the last post. He still tends to ignore or hide from my attempts to tong-feed him bits of worm, but I know he's been eating (calcium-coated & gutloaded) crickets when I've put them in for him.

    I noticed last night he had a bit of a lump on his right side, so we gave him a 20-minute soaking in some honey-treated water, and again in some regular treated tapwater. About another 20 minutes after that, he had a *huge* poop in his water dish. Well, at least we know he's eating now! :P
    My little monsters: 1. Kaiju: Dwarf Pyxie frog (believed male) -- 2. Jaeger: C.Cranwelli/Albino Pacman (unknown gender) ...so far!

  9. #8
    100+ Post Member monster's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Nationality
    [Canada]
    Location
    Barrie,ON
    Posts
    1,326

    Default Re: Howdy! And... trouble with new Pacman baby?

    Glad to hear your little guy is doing better. For the tong he will eventually come around, some take longer then others to figure out they mean dinner and not death. L.O.L A little trick is to rub the food under his bottom lip when tong feeding. And again glad hes doing better.

  10. #9

    Default Re: Howdy! And... trouble with new Pacman baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by TekNinja81 View Post
    Jaeger has been doing well since the last post. He still tends to ignore or hide from my attempts to tong-feed him bits of worm, but I know he's been eating (calcium-coated & gutloaded) crickets when I've put them in for him.

    I noticed last night he had a bit of a lump on his right side, so we gave him a 20-minute soaking in some honey-treated water, and again in some regular treated tapwater. About another 20 minutes after that, he had a *huge* poop in his water dish. Well, at least we know he's eating now! :P
    This gives me hope for my little Petsmart guy. I hope mine eats soon.

  11. #10
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Nationality
    [Canada]
    Location
    Toronto, Ontario
    Posts
    13

    Default Re: Howdy! And... trouble with new Pacman baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by monster View Post
    ... A little trick is to rub the food under his bottom lip when tong feeding. ...
    Yeah, I've been trying that method but he usually either just sits there completely ignoring me (the butthead lol) or backs away. Hopefully he catches on eventually, but as you said, some of these guys take longer. I'm just glad he's eating at all.
    My little monsters: 1. Kaiju: Dwarf Pyxie frog (believed male) -- 2. Jaeger: C.Cranwelli/Albino Pacman (unknown gender) ...so far!

  12. #11
    100+ Post Member monster's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Nationality
    [Canada]
    Location
    Barrie,ON
    Posts
    1,326

    Default Re: Howdy! And... trouble with new Pacman baby?

    Hey one little thing noticed after looking over the thread is you may want to change that daylight bulb you have in for a red bulb, night bulb or some really low wattage leds. Even though there is no uvb the bright light can still hurt his eyes. I cant really tell how much light it gives off because the room light is on but it may be something you want to look into.

  13. #12
    100+ Post Member DVirginiana's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Nationality
    [United States]
    Location
    North Carolina
    Posts
    1,091

    Default Re: Howdy! And... trouble with new Pacman baby?

    Mine took weeks to figure out the tongs. What are you trying to tong-feed? I tried basically everything I could, and nightcrawlers were finally what got mine to take food from the tongs. Both my pac and my WTF HATE it and back away if I get a cricket too close with the tongs and the legs touch their face. The nightcrawlers don't seem to bug them (no pun intended) that much.
    3.0 Thamnophis sirtalis sirtalis
    1.1 Thamnophis cyrtopsis ocellatus
    0.1 Ceratophrys cranwelli
    1.0 Litoria caerulea
    0.1 Terrapene carolina
    0.1 Python regius
    0.1 Grammostola rosea
    0.0.1 Brachypelma smithi
    0.1 Hogna carolinensis

  14. This member thanks DVirginiana for this post:


  15. #13
    100+ Post Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Nationality
    [United Kingdom]
    Location
    Scotland
    Age
    27
    Posts
    1,134
    Blog Entries
    1
    Picture Albums: Member Photo Albums

    Default Re: Howdy! And... trouble with new Pacman baby?

    at first when I got my horned frog the only thing he would take would be locusts of a reasonable size, then weaned him on to other foods

  16. #14
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Nationality
    [Canada]
    Location
    Toronto, Ontario
    Posts
    13

    Default Re: Howdy! And... trouble with new Pacman baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by monster View Post
    ...you may want to change that daylight bulb you have in for a red bulb, night bulb or some really low wattage leds....
    I had been wondering about that myself, as I know the albinos are more sensitive to UVB and harsh light. The 60W daytime bulb I have doesn't output any UVB, and is a softer light than the regular CFL-type bulbs we originally had, but I picked up an ExoTerra 50W red (infrared basking spot) bulb to replace it with tonight. It seems to be working well, though I re-covered the rear half of the top to help hold in some of the heat & humidity. Supposedly the 50W IR basking bulbs run about 15F cooler than the daytime heat lamps do. (Boxes state 73F for the IR, 88F for the daytime heat, at 12"... IR doesn't even list anything beyond that distance.) I'll see how it goes in the next few days. Another alternative is that we actually have some red lens material that could be placed under the daytime light to "imitate" a red light...


    Quote Originally Posted by DVirginiana View Post
    Mine took weeks to figure out the tongs. What are you trying to tong-feed? I tried basically everything I could, and nightcrawlers were finally what got mine to take food from the tongs. Both my pac and my WTF HATE it and back away if I get a cricket too close with the tongs and the legs touch their face. The nightcrawlers don't seem to bug them (no pun intended) that much.
    I've tried feeding crickets, silkworms, small hornworms, and bits of nightcrawler via tongs. The first day or two he showed interest and actually did snap at the food items (though as mentioned, one time it was a superworm) but generally ignores most of anything I put in his face now. Hoping he eventually learns. I know he's eating bits and pieces now, but would feel much better if I could actually *see* it happen.
    My little monsters: 1. Kaiju: Dwarf Pyxie frog (believed male) -- 2. Jaeger: C.Cranwelli/Albino Pacman (unknown gender) ...so far!

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. New Pacman frog trouble
    By Unnar Karl in forum Pacman Frogs
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: February 25th, 2015, 02:57 AM
  2. Baby Pac-man Trouble
    By HughesJe09 in forum Pacman Frogs
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: December 25th, 2013, 08:15 PM
  3. Having trouble dusting with new baby pyxie.
    By NialR35 in forum African Bullfrogs
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: September 24th, 2013, 01:12 PM
  4. My Pacman could be in trouble!
    By paul3col in forum Pacman Frogs
    Replies: 23
    Last Post: May 4th, 2013, 01:02 PM
  5. Big Pacman frog trouble
    By phiblife in forum Pacman Frogs
    Replies: 13
    Last Post: March 16th, 2013, 09:28 PM

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •