Gray tree frog (Hyla versicolor) lighting

[Mr Leopard]

Hi,

I'm thinking about (maybe) getting a gray tree frog and I've been looking at care sheets. Some recommend UVB lighting, others say they're fine without it as long as you use a supplement that contains D3... and some say they can overdose on D3. I was wondering what your thoughts were on this issue.

I've also seen similar confusion as to the need for heat lamps and what temperature range they'll tolerate. Here it gets pretty cold in the winter, but the cold end of the range shouldn't be an issue. I'm worried about the warm end of the range, though. In the summer, it can get warmer than 30 Celcius and some care sheets say that a bit warmer than 30 is fine, while others recommend a top temperature of 26 degrees Celcius.

I also have a few other questions.

Will it keep everyone up at night, in the spring, if it's a male (with it's singing).
Are they ok with lots of disturbance during the day (i.e., getting switched to a transport terrarium, traveling, having lots of kids look at it [without handling it, of course], etc.)

Any other important advice would be appreciated.

[teslas intern]

You aren't going to get a clear answer on the UVB issue, it's highly debated. I kept a gray for two years with no UVB and she was fine, and now I'm raising five babies without it. The need for UVB is so the frog can produce vitamin D, but just like humans in the extreme North, if you supplement, you should be fine. If you don't supplement, you risk killing the frog...

Room temp is always fine for gray tree frogs! They come from the temperate regions of North America after all. Now the issue can become if you don't heat their tank a little in the summer, they can get confused about what season it is, so a little supplemental heat is always helpful to keep them from hibernating. The biggest issue is they can take some heat during the day, but they aren't tropical frogs and should be allowed to cool at night when they are active. Basically look at the average highs and lows from a few states where the frogs come from and see what they expect. Keep in mind just because a frog can survive mid nineties, doesn't mean he will be happy about it... In the end I'd say low 80's during the day and low seventies at night in the summer, and low seventies durning the day and high sixties at night in the winter. Should be warm enough to keep the frog from hibernating. With that said I keep my grays at room temperature, and that temperature fluctuates in my house a great deal, and they seem to do fine.

Finally yes, they will keep you up at night until you get used to the sound. If you open a window the additional night nose will help drown them out. If found this to be true for crickets anyway... Best of luck!

[Diver]

I'm yet to see anyone present a good reason for not providing UVB (except with albino animals), have a read of this thread:

http://www.frogforum.net/showthread.php?t=35252

[Mr Leopard]

Thanks for the replies.

I forgot to ask if a 10 gallon aquarium converted into a vertical terrarium would be a good set up. (This idea is part of the reason I'd like to avoid providing uvb lighting, because the top would be fiberglass, so the lighting would have to come from the front.)

The thing that scares me about the heat is that while we do have gray tree frogs around here, in nature animals can find cool spots even when they air is extremely warm, something they can't really do in a terrarium sitting in a 95 degree living-room. And temperatures, here, can hover around 95 degrees for several days in the summer with not much cooling at night (yes, Canada is not always cold :-)

I have a leopard frog and he survives those days by cooling in his water, but, while he seems fine (and is perfectly active when I feed him), I'm always nervous that he's not as doing as fine as should be.

Also, does anyone know the answer to my question regarding daytime disturbance? "Are they ok with lots of disturbance during the day (i.e., getting switched to a transport terrarium, traveling, having lots of kids look at it [without handling it, of course], etc.)"

[teslas intern]

Hmm... That's a bit warm... I would invest in a window AC unit and cool the room down to the low 80's at least. Lighting will add additional heat, so if you use supplemental lighting (which you should) you want the room to be cooled to compensate for that. I wouldn't subject a Canadian frog to those daytime temps, they don't back in the water during the day like a leopard frog.

A further note on lighting, do not light from the side! Animals bodies are built to shield their eyes from light from above, this includes UV light. If you bombard them from the side, they might not know how to escape it properly. Over time this could lead to blindness. I know the fish keeping community harps about this. Frogs are more versatile about how they position their bodies than fish, but I wouldn't put a frog in such an unnatural state, where intense light is coming from the side, all day long. As for UVB, in your case I would omit it. As you said aa 10 gallon on its side will filter it out anyway. For all the research that has been done, overwhelming anecdotal evidence suggests that people keep frogs for years both with, and without UVB. Whilst I respect the research that has been done, and believe we should do what science tells us is best for our pets, you can't argue with the results those who don't use it obtain. Additionally, the available UV bulbs are a poor match for the exposure you would get in Canadian forests, given they are designed for tropical rainforests, or harsh deserts. All that being said, I would go for a different tank if it's an option. 10 gallons is good for a small gray, but the footprint of a ten on end is too small, froggy will never be able to jump as far as he'd like.

As for traffic, he'll get used to done noise, nature is a noisy place most of the time. If he fares poorly, move him to a different room. I hope this answers your questions, and again I wish you good luck!

[Mr Leopard]

Thanks Scott.

I was thinking about placing it in my livingroom in the winter and in my room in the summer (I have AC in my room because I keep salamanders there). But I'm concerned about the noise, in spring. Would wrapping the terrarium in foam at night (with a few air holes) be good enough? Or is it not good enough and / or not advisable. I could probably place it on my balcony, but then, what about the neighbors?

I love their sound, but I've never had to sleep with one only a few meters away.

As for the disturbances, I also meant actual moving of the frog (i.e. getting switched to a transport terrarium and moved to another location). I probably won't happen often, at first, but eventually it could happen several times a week.

[LilyPad]

I do not use UVB with my grey tree frogs and they are in excellent health. I supplement with calcium+ D3. You would have to make your own decision regarding whether or not to use the UVB lighting though. It's pretty much worthless if it's not on a screen top. I posted on your other thread regarding the transport and tank size. Some nights I do not hear my frogs at all, other nights the greys keep me up I wouldn't wrap it in foam, they need good ventilation to prevent illnesses.

I'm yet to see anyone present a good reason for not providing UVB (except with albino animals), have a read of this thread:

http://www.frogforum.net/showthread.php?t=35252

I think that, in regards to that thread, everyone is just tired of beating the dead horse. It had already been heavily hashed out in the other thread.

[Diver]

I think that, in regards to that thread, everyone is just tired of beating the dead horse. It had already been heavily hashed out in the other thread.

I didn't see any hashing whatsoever, as I said I've never seen a good reason presented to not use UVB, truth be told the scientific evidence speaks for itself. It's true that a lot of people get away with not using it and supplementing instead with some of the hardier species, but it's not the best husbandry available and certainly shouldn't be advised as the correct thing to do when people ask the question. Given the option if someone is told it doesn't matter by somebody experienced then they'll choose to save themselves a few bucks. Shame for the frogs though, they're animals and they deserve the absolute best care it's possible to provide, not some 'it'll do', 'OK' or 'fine' set up. UVB benefits frogs - fact. Why would you withhold something beneficial?

[Mr Leopard]

Thanks for the replies.

Making it hibernate and keeping it in my room year-round aren't options. Although, for the last one, maybe I could find a way.

Wrapping the tank in foam would be a last-ditch effort, and, of course it would only be at night. It would be removed during the day and I'd make sure they still have a fair amount of ventilation with the foam on. But I'm hoping not to need it at all.