*Hello & Help*

[JButera]

Anyone know of a private African dwarf frog breeder or anyone here selling any captive bred adf's? Had no success with any bought from the 'big two' pet stores.

[Jenste]

You can always keep an eye on the Classified's section but I don't recall any postings as of late for ADF.

What type of set up do you have? Maybe we can help you along those lines as well. (Just ruling out any possible problems for future frogs )

And welcome to the forum!

[celticstarb]

I am just getting back into dwarfs. I recently picked up 4 boys and 6 girls. It will be several months before I will have any babies ready for new homes. First I need to get them into breeding condition.

[JButera]

Hi Jen and thanks, I can't be certain but I believe they all died from the Chytrid fungus. I bought 3 recently and one died in the bag on the way home and the other died in the tank about three hours later. The third one died about 5 days later. Water parameters didn't seem to be an issue since they were dying off long before the water could even become toxic.

[JButera]

several months? great Lol please put me on your list.

[celticstarb]

There's really no way to be sure unless you send the deceased frogs in for testing, which can get expensive. I would bet they probably died from being held at a distributor, then shipped to the pet store and never getting proper treatment at either place. Most of these places feed them fish food. Sometimes the stress of netting them, putting them in a bag, and transporting them is just the last straw.

I suggest bleaching your aquarium, decorations, and all equipment just in case it was chytrid or some other pathogen.

Send me a PM and I'll let you know when I get some tads so you can cycle your tank. I'll post in the classified section when I have them ready for sale.

[JButera]

I'm thinking chytrid was to blame based on symptoms, but like you said I'm really not sure without lab results. I tried to attach a pic of one of the deceased frogs but the site refused the pic.

[Jenste]

The image uploader is acting up lately, but if you have the photobucket code use this code to make it work

Type [img] at the beginning of the photobucket direct link, then [/img] at the end of it. (No spacing). It will post it for you.

What were the symptoms? And you mentioned trouble from "both" the big chains...had you bought the frogs all at once or did you have the same experience twice at two different times?


I agree with making sure you thoroughly sanitized your tank before adding any new frogs in. All and any equipment included - filter, heater (if you had one) and net.

[JButera]

thanks Jen and yes from both stores and at different times. Actually, the first two I received were bought from a toy store. As far as describing symptoms, the frog(s) would usually be in a constant tattered shed stage and looking paler then they should. Then no eating or much moving, they would just float at the top for hours or lay low at the bottom and not move. Then followed by what looks to be a desperate attempt to leave the water. Some would flip upside down (belly up) on the substrate and either just lay there or attempt to right themselves. During this whole period most would have some type of hematoma or swollen red patch, usually seen on their throat or belly.

[Jenste]

Had you cycled the tank before adding them?
Ammonia and poor water quality can cause the tattered and red skin also.

[JButera]

they were in uncycled heated tanks.

[Jenste]

before you get any more I would make sure you have a cycled tank waiting for them. The stress of arriving and then leaving the pet store, being bagged/netted, and then introduced into a new system with growing levels of ammonia can be quite a lot for an ADF to handle. Stress lowers the immune system so they are coming to you from the store already a bit under the weather. Even being shipped by a private breeder will expose them to stresses (no one likes being moved whether it's in a bag or a box!).

Not sure what size tank you have but I would aim for a 10 gallon or a 20 gallon long as a great starting point - you could have a great colony in either of these tanks and the extra water volume helps with water stability.

[celticstarb]

I agree! A cycled tank is a must for aquatic frogs. The tank should be cycled for at least 4-6 weeks, but 6 weeks is better. A good test kit is essential for cycling a tank. If you need any help with the cycling process , we will be glad to help.

What is your current setup?

[JButera]

I completely agree about having a cycled tank, but from my understanding a cycled tank and a tank that receives 100% water changes on a daily basis or every other day pretty much has the same water parameters. I currently have a cycled cherry shrimp tank and the parameters are as follows: 0 ammonia, 0 nitrite, 5ppm nitrate and a pH of 7.6. My tap water is almost the same except for no nitrates and a pH of 6.8 - 7.0. I do dechlorinate and temperature match when i do water changes. I'm Not saying this is the way to go because of all the commotion involved in doing a large water change 3 - 7 times a week but I can't imagine the ammonia level building up to a toxic or unhealthy level in such a short period of time. *Or am I totally wrong???*

[celticstarb]

That's not exactly how it works. In a fully cycled tank, the beneficial bacteria kick into action as soon as there is any ammonia. If the tank is fully cycled and you take an ammonia reading at any point during the day, it should read 0ppm.

With daily water changes, you have 24 hours of ammonia buildup. You may start out with 0ppm ammonia, but in 24 hours it can quickly rise to 1 or 2 ppm. And water changes also stress the aquarium inhabitants.

I was told that for aquatic frogs, ammonia feels like when you have a bad sunburn and go back out in the sun.

[JButera]

no argument here about having a cycled tank, but it's the level of ammonia and how fast it rises is the issue. I'm not sure how much ammonia one frog plus some uneaten food can produce in 24 hours (in 2 gallons of ammonia free water) but 1ppm - 2ppm in 24 hours seems kind of high. Tbh I'm hoping it's a lot less then that.

[celticstarb]

They are such messy eaters, and produce a lot of waste. Another consideration is water temps. Dwarf frogs are kept a tropical temps, which is perfect for organics to break down quickly. It sounds high, I know, but is definitely possible