Housing other frogs with a leopard frog

[Larry Wardog]

Frogs and toads have toxins in their skin that is harmful to each other. The secretions of a toad will kill a dog very fast if untreated. Leopard Frogs don't have very many species that can attain a size that they will not eat or be eaten by the other frog. Wood Frogs will not get eaten or eat leopards if they are both adults. The problem is that wood frogs are more like an American toad. They don't live by the water like other frogs do. I've found some in the woods decently far from a pond. And the size of your tank is a bit small to keep both of them. 2 leopards will do good in a minimum 29-30 Gallon long. A wood frog doesn't need as much space since it's more terrestrial then aquatic but, you would need a 40-55 or more to do this. It looks more natural and decreases territorial standoffs. I have a 75 Gallon Vivarium with American Toads (a sexed pair) and Northern Leopard Frogs (sexed also), this is the minimum for 4 of them even with lots of hides and plants. I don't discourage you but I would say to see if your frog is happy. Why I got sexed pairs is because it to me feels more natural and the 2 species are happy. With a 20 gallon your one frog is probably happy, they aren't usually social with each other. So they don't need a friend. But a mate imo is something that everything and everyone wants so if you get a bigger tank, you'll find that would be all you'd need.
You can checkout my Viv I have info posted on there about stuff that May interest you

http://www.frogforum.net/showthread.php?t=34251

Don't try this unless you have years of experience and knowledge about both species.

Don't add a tree frog because the leopard frog will eat it. Mine can jump higher than 3 feet that I know of.

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[Mr Leopard]

I'm not necessarily dead set on housing them together (the alternative will need carfeful consideration), but none of the care sheets I've read make any fuss about them being kept with other frogs (at least not with other leopard frogs). The recommendation is always 10 gallons per frog (granted, that's a minimum....and, granted, a few of those care sheets were dead wrong with regards to the frog's biology). I agree that the bigger the terrarium, the better, though. That's generally the case.

As for the toxicity of the skin, does anyone have a scientific source that backs the general claim that frogs have toxins that are harmful to each other? I may be new to keeping frogs in captivity, but (even though I wouldn't call myself an expert on frogs) I do know a bit about the life in the wild (a very different ball game) of several species. Some do have toxins that are harmful to other frogs, but if all (or the greater majority of them) did, cannibalism and the eating of other frogs species wouldn't be so widespread. It sounds to me like it could be the result of an agglomeration of other facts, something like: toads have toxins + some frogs have toxins + the frog mucus often contains chemicals like antibacterials, etc., all being turned into the general statement that all frogs have harmful toxins in their skins.

(Makes me feel like bullfrogs and leopard frogs could overdose on frogs...)

I could be wrong, though, and if so I'd love more details. A scientific source (or something close to that) would be awesome if anyone can direct me toward one.

If I do decide to house them together, would the frogs need to be very similar in size or does the small one just need to be bigger than the other one's head? (I'm assuming the closer the size, the better, but what's the "smaller-than-this-you-risk-tragedy" point?...the one to stay far away from) Also, what's the quarantine time. Is it the same as with snakes (2-3 months)? How hard is it to make sure that they both get their fill at feeding time (do you need to place them in separate containers while they eat?)?

[Platinumtreasure]

I've been contemplating whether I should keep all the frogs I raised from tadpoles. They have all been froglets for about 2 to 3 weeks. There appears to be 2 green tree froglets, 2 grey tree froglets and 1 leopard froglet. As of right now the 2 green froglets seem to band together in close proximity. And the 2 grey tree froglets and the leopard frog band together more closely. Literally cuddled like puppies do when at rest.

Frogs and toads have toxins in their skin that is harmful to each other. The secretions of a toad will kill a dog very fast if untreated. Leopard Frogs don't have very many species that can attain a size that they will not eat or be eaten by the other frog. Wood Frogs will not get eaten or eat leopards if they are both adults. The problem is that wood frogs are more like an American toad. They don't live by the water like other frogs do. I've found some in the woods decently far from a pond. And the size of your tank is a bit small to keep both of them. 2 leopards will do good in a minimum 29-30 Gallon long. A wood frog doesn't need as much space since it's more terrestrial then aquatic but, you would need a 40-55 or more to do this. It looks more natural and decreases territorial standoffs. I have a 75 Gallon Vivarium with American Toads (a sexed pair) and Northern Leopard Frogs (sexed also), this is the minimum for 4 of them even with lots of hides and plants. I don't discourage you but I would say to see if your frog is happy. Why I got sexed pairs is because it to me feels more natural and the 2 species are happy. With a 20 gallon your one frog is probably happy, they aren't usually social with each other. So they don't need a friend. But a mate imo is something that everything and everyone wants so if you get a bigger tank, you'll find that would be all you'd need.
You can checkout my Viv I have info posted on there about stuff that May interest you

http://www.frogforum.net/showthread.php?t=34251

Don't try this unless you have years of experience and knowledge about both species.

Don't add a tree frog because the leopard frog will eat it. Mine can jump higher than 3 feet that I know of.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Larry Wardog]

I've been contemplating whether I should keep all the frogs I raised from tadpoles. They have all been froglets for about 2 to 3 weeks. There appears to be 2 green tree froglets, 2 grey tree froglets and 1 leopard froglet. As of right now the 2 green froglets seem to band together in close proximity. And the 2 grey tree froglets and the leopard frog band together more closely. Literally cuddled like puppies do when at rest.

The Leopard Frog will eat the other frogs. In about a year when it's large it will have eaten or will attempt to eat the frogs. I've done a lot of research since 2015 and I can say it's too dangerous to use a leopard frog with a tree frog because the leopard frog is territorial and not good to house with smaller tank mates. They can work with toads in large setups but it's very dangerous to house them with tree frogs. They can jump higher then the height of your enclosure as they are the farthest jumper I've read so they will literally pick off the tree frogs from wherever they are. I've had to release toads because they tried to hunt my gray tree frogs. I would even encourage you to just have 2 setups for both tree frog species. It makes it more of a competition if you have multiple species competing for the same space. My all terrestrial setup the leopard frogs and toads wasn't the best idea because they competed for space but my other setup works because I spent years after the Leopard Frog passed to find that two species inhabiting different parts of the enclosure is the best way with keeping a mixed species setup but again it doesn't just work putting even these toads and tree frogs together. There are a lot of variables that need time to be planned out and finances that need to be secured in order to provide the exact care for both so one tank mate isn't getting seconds they should get the same amount and quality of care. If you can't love both species and be even then it isn't going to work no matter what the facts say or other experts say because the only way a mixed species setup works is when you are making a setup where both species are the primary animal. You didn't suggest anything for me to say this but other people may see this and think I support keeping mixed species and when I still do have a mixed species tank I know after years of experience it's not something that is for everyone it's a very demanding type of responsibility. I hope you keep the frog or frogs you really want and if it's all 3 then that's awesome they are all great!

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[Platinumtreasure]

Thanks for your insight! The only reason I haven't released them it's because they're so small. My granddaughter has gotten really attached to them but I've explained to her we want them to be able to live free. So right now I think I'm just trying to get them to a larger size before releasing them into the wild to give them a Fighting Chance for survival. I have a 55 gallon tank and my ultimate would be to get a captive-bred pixie frog or cane toad.

The Leopard Frog will eat the other frogs. In about a year when it's large it will have eaten or will attempt to eat the frogs. I've done a lot of research since 2015 and I can say it's too dangerous to use a leopard frog with a tree frog because the leopard frog is territorial and not good to house with smaller tank mates. They can work with toads in large setups but it's very dangerous to house them with tree frogs. They can jump higher then the height of your enclosure as they are the farthest jumper I've read so they will literally pick off the tree frogs from wherever they are. I've had to release toads because they tried to hunt my gray tree frogs. I would even encourage you to just have 2 setups for both tree frog species. It makes it more of a competition if you have multiple species competing for the same space. My all terrestrial setup the leopard frogs and toads wasn't the best idea because they competed for space but my other setup works because I spent years after the Leopard Frog passed to find that two species inhabiting different parts of the enclosure is the best way with keeping a mixed species setup but again it doesn't just work putting even these toads and tree frogs together. There are a lot of variables that need time to be planned out and finances that need to be secured in order to provide the exact care for both so one tank mate isn't getting seconds they should get the same amount and quality of care. If you can't love both species and be even then it isn't going to work no matter what the facts say or other experts say because the only way a mixed species setup works is when you are making a setup where both species are the primary animal. You didn't suggest anything for me to say this but other people may see this and think I support keeping mixed species and when I still do have a mixed species tank I know after years of experience it's not something that is for everyone it's a very demanding type of responsibility. I hope you keep the frog or frogs you really want and if it's all 3 then that's awesome they are all great!

Sent from my BLN-L24 using Tapatalk