PetSmart a little outdated on Pacman info

[monster]

Ya there care guide isn't to great, I have been argueing with the store here about it and have called corporate but nothing is ever done. They have 2 here were I live and they are takeing a long time to sell so they decided to take them out of there critterkeepers and put them on display in ten gallon tanks with no heating, nothing covering any of the sides so they can see out everywhere they look, and there is just the screen top so all the humidity escapes. And they have them were if you are in the reptile department you will have to walk by them. I told the manager of that department that isn't good for them to be exposed like that because it really stresses them out and that the stress is very bad and she just pretty much looked at me like ok whatever. I then told her that they should have some kind of supplemental heating being cold for too long can lead to edema and other things, and her response was that they don't need the heat they can be housed at room temp of 75f. They have care guide booklet for pixie frogs and when I asked when they will get some the same the manager told me never, that they haven't carried them for years. Then why is the careguide still there and if you look on their website they still have pixies advertised for sale. Good old petsmart.

[jasonm96]

Far as I'm concerned with under tank heaters is that Philippe de Vosjoli, one of the first to breed pacman frogs and other books suggest it as a method. As long as you put it on a thermostat and the probe is directly ontop of the heat mat under the substrate i doubt it will get hot enough to cause burns. I can see why peoole don't recommend them though, because frogs burrow to keep cool but the mat should only cover half of the floor anyway. Frogs aren't stupid, I'm sure they're aware where the heat is coming from.

[monster]

My biggest concern for the uth is that it messes with them cooling down. And when underneath if you don't have some kind of automated mister you will be doing a lot of hand misting because it dries out the substrate, and if your not misting enough if his substrate dries to much he could dehydrate. That's personally why I put mine on the side, and the thing about them not being stupid they know were the heat is comeing from, a frog regulates his body temp to help with heat. the best way to explain this is go to youtube and look up boiling frog, and no the frog at the end isn't a real frog. But when you watch he puts a whites tree frog in pot of water on the stove and slowly turns the heat up, instead of the frog jumping out he just stays there because his body temp is changing to help him with stand the heat. because he is built to do this he doesn't even realize how hot it is actually getting and eventually he dies from boiling water because he doesn't know any better. Again the end is not a real frog, and I don't know 100% if pacmans would work the same way but if so that's how I believe It would end up getting burned. It wouldn't be an instant burn or scald, he would sit on top of it to long I believe and eventually would maybe get the burn, or some sort of serious heat rash. And im not saying he is stupid because its just a natural thing they do. I don't know if I explained that properly but if you watch or have watched the video he explains it a lot better.

[jasonm96]

I understand your point but I find you have to weigh out the pros and cons with any heating source. When used under the tank, it will be more effective for heat but can confuse the frog. Used on the side it does not warm the ambient temperature and unless the frog is right next to it, ontop of the substrate, it won't heat the frog either. Urgh, if only I lived in a hot country.

[monster]

Ya there not the most efficient on the side unless you insulate around them which is what I have done and I can honestly say I have no problems hitting my temp summer or winter. And yes you are right theres pros and cons to with any heating source, oh and my guys never feel the need to sit against the glass were the uth is to stay warm. To be honest they will sit closer to the middle of the tank or on the cool side and if they do sit or bury on warm side they will stay there for a couple days leave for cooler part of tank and then go back to the warm side a few days later. Mine never stay in the warm for very long periods of time.

[jasonm96]

What I would say is do whatever works for you and your animal. I had my mat on the side and I noticed my frog would sit ontop of the substrate at night, right on the glass... So I thought that if there was any chance of burning it would do the same with it on the side. Heat lamps would be the best option but for where I live I'd need a very high wattage to reach the temps needed and I found dried out the cage far too fast

[DVirginiana]

I'm lucky in that I have a room dedicated to my herps, so I use a space heater to keep the ambient temp in the right range... I don't even use supplemental heat at this point.

I think using a UTH under the tank with a thermostat would eliminate the burn risk, but I also think it has the potential to mess with their thermoregulation. The thing is, they really aren't very smart... Kind of like their instincts tell them that something moving is food, and they'll eat it even if it's not food, their instincts tell them to burrow to get cooler, so their reaction to a heat source from below is to keep trying to get deeper. I mean, yeah, eventually they'll just figure out that the temp is just too warm in that location and move to the other side of the tank, but that's only going to happen after they've spent awhile trying to burrow in the hot area getting stressed about it.
I feel like what you're seeing may be the result of the room's ambient temp being a bit on the low side, so the frog is perfectly comfortable on the heated side of the tank?