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Thread: Red eyed tree frog housing+ lighting

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    Default Red eyed tree frog housing+ lighting

    Hello, I'm brand new to this forum, I wanted to see if maybe I could get a more educated opinion of tank sizes for 2-3 RETF's. I have an 18x18x18 live planted tank that I'm planning to let grow in for a couple months before getting any frogs, but my issue with this is with the drainage and soil layer and diy background I made, the tank volume is more like 17 gallons rather than the 23 gallons it would be empty. I had been hoping to get a trio as they supposedly do better in groups, but I'm not sure if this is enough room for 3 of them. If the tank is heavily planted, would there be enough room for 3 of them? What are some concerns with keeping 3 of them in a tank this size (are they prone to aggressive behavior if they don't have the full 25 gallons for 3 of them etc.) I'm a bit confused, when some websites say 10 gallons for a pair plus 5 gallons per extra frog is enough, where others say 10 gallons per frog is needed, or if these sizes refer to empty tank sizes and that starting out with a empty 23 is okay. If it's unsafe to put three in there I'll only get 2 though.

    Also, there seems to be a lot of debate on UVB lighting for these guys. I know they're nocturnal, but many seem to believe UVB is still beneficial or even a necessity. Right now the tank is just lit up with two 26 watt 6500k CFL for the plants. The compact top they're in takes up an entire half of the screen lid, so I worry about putting another light on top of the open screen, that it will cut off too much air circulation for the frogs.

    Any help would be appreciated, this will be my first time caring for frogs long term in my own home.

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    Default Re: Red eyed tree frog housing+ lighting

    I can tell you the uva and uvb are critical. Otherwise they get MBD look that up. Mites and mold may be a problem with your set up. Red leg is a disease they can also get from environment issues. And be very aware of what may be able to get into their mouths along with their food.I just had 4 rocks removed from my mrs. Bighead yesterday. Oversights can be catastrophic and expensive. It was 800 to get them out. And she's sore as hell. Your doing the right thing with educating yourself before you bring them home. Best of luck with your new guys

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    Default Re: Red eyed tree frog housing+ lighting

    One of the lights let's them digest food and the other one let's the body absorb the food that's what I was taught

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    Default Re: Red eyed tree frog housing+ lighting

    They need calcium to avoid MBD as well. I lost a chameleon to that. That's when I got vet help to save my male and this where I was educated about all that.

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    Default Re: Red eyed tree frog housing+ lighting

    LLL reptile supply all of the best brands half the prices than at pet co. And better selections of everything.

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    Default Re: Red eyed tree frog housing+ lighting

    Quote Originally Posted by stat View Post
    Hello, I'm brand new to this forum, I wanted to see if maybe I could get a more educated opinion of tank sizes for 2-3 RETF's. I have an 18x18x18 live planted tank that I'm planning to let grow in for a couple months before getting any frogs, but my issue with this is with the drainage and soil layer and diy background I made, the tank volume is more like 17 gallons rather than the 23 gallons it would be empty. I had been hoping to get a trio as they supposedly do better in groups, but I'm not sure if this is enough room for 3 of them. If the tank is heavily planted, would there be enough room for 3 of them? What are some concerns with keeping 3 of them in a tank this size (are they prone to aggressive behavior if they don't have the full 25 gallons for 3 of them etc.) I'm a bit confused, when some websites say 10 gallons for a pair plus 5 gallons per extra frog is enough, where others say 10 gallons per frog is needed, or if these sizes refer to empty tank sizes and that starting out with a empty 23 is okay. If it's unsafe to put three in there I'll only get 2 though.

    Also, there seems to be a lot of debate on UVB lighting for these guys. I know they're nocturnal, but many seem to believe UVB is still beneficial or even a necessity. Right now the tank is just lit up with two 26 watt 6500k CFL for the plants. The compact top they're in takes up an entire half of the screen lid, so I worry about putting another light on top of the open screen, that it will cut off too much air circulation for the frogs.

    Any help would be appreciated, this will be my first time caring for frogs long term in my own home.
    Firstly, I would only do 2 in that size tank. An 18x18x24 would have been a much better option, as they like height, but with what you have...I'd only do 2. They don't necessarily prefer to live in groups, they do just fine on their own, but they do just fine in a group also. So don't worry about that if you only have 2.

    UVB will always be a debate. I do not use UVB, I use rep-cal + vitamin D supplement with all of my frogs. I used to use UVB and have seen no changes in the health of my frogs or their behavior in the year since I stopped using UVB lighting. There is no reason you cannot switch out your 6500k CFL's for UVB CFL's though if you're concerned. Just keep in mind that they need to be replaced approximately every 6 months to remain effective.

    You do need space on your screen top for a good heater. Being in Canada, and having cold winters. This is a MUST. On my 18x18x24, I use a 50 watt ceramic heat emitter connected to a thermostat so that they do not overheat. Under tank heaters are not going to cut it.

    A planted tank is definitely a good choice for these guys

    Here is a good care article - http://www.frogforum.net/content.php...nis-callidryas

    Thanks for doing the research before buying these guys, that will save you a lot of hassle in the long run!
    2.0.3 Hyla versicolor "Eastern Gray Tree Frogs"
    2.2.0 Agalychnis callidryas "Red Eyed Tree Frogs"

    0.0.3 Dendrobates auratus "Turquoise and Bronze"
    0.0.1 Anaxyrus fowleri "Fowler's Toad"



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    Default Re: Red eyed tree frog housing+ lighting

    Darn, I was hoping I wouldn't hear that the bigger tank would have been a better option . I got the tank for free when someone dumped their leopard gecko in the store I work at, since bought the gecko a more appropriate tank, and frogs have always been interesting to me. Do you think this tank will negatively effect a pair of them if its well planted? I don't like keeping animals in homes that are "good enough". Also, I keep the room they will be in at 75-77 degrees Fahrenheit year round with a plug in oil heater, is it okay if their temp is maintained through the ambient room temperature, or do they need that direct heat source? Worst case scenario I can rethink the critters that will go in here, but I really would like red eyes

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    Default Re: Red eyed tree frog housing+ lighting

    Please speak to a vet about your lighting. I've used uva and uvb the whole time I've had my frogs. If you look at mrs. Bighead xray you'll see how tiny their bones are and hers are straight and perfect. It's not sitting well with me that that one person said he quit uvb and they look fine to him. Their bones twist and curve you can't see that till its too late. Reptiles look fine until they don't and it can be too late. Call a vet and ask for yourself please .


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    Default Re: Red eyed tree frog housing+ lighting

    MBD can be stopped NOT CURED so however twisted the bones are how it's going to live for the rest of its life

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    Default Re: Red eyed tree frog housing+ lighting

    I'm not a frog expert and don't want to start a controversy. However, I do maintain a large number of species of geckos including many nocturnal geckos and day geckos. All of my geckos are maintained without UV. The nocturnal ones who don't live in planted enclosures have no lighting except the ambient lighting in the room. Those in planted enclosures have grow-lights for the plants. The nocturnal geckos' D3 needs are low and are met with regular dusting of feeders with Repashy Calcium Plus. Even the day geckos are maintained without UVB and with adequate amounts of Repashy dusted feeders and powdered nectar (which is, obviously rehydrated for them) which contains both calcium and vitamin D3. This is done according to the instructions of Lean and Greg Christenson who are day gecko breeders. My day geckos are 7 and 8 years old. I would assume that what I do for the geckos will be adequate for nocturnal tree frogs.

    Aliza

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    Default Re: Red eyed tree frog housing+ lighting

    Wether my snakes, wtf's, retf's, firebellies(i call em bombers), beardies, or the rest of my long list of tank babies; they all have 1 65k full spectrum(grow) and 1uvb. Recently weve slowly been replacing the 65k's with led's. Take alot less power and last oh so long, but theyre mostly for the plants. The uvb is more preferance to how you keep your critters. I noticed brighter colors and better growth rates with my snakes. Im not brave enough to keep the frogs without uvb(and the wife would KILL me if anything happened to the frogs). Still, with the right supplements, it could be possible to nix the uvb.

    More preferance then anything i guess.

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    Default Re: Red eyed tree frog housing+ lighting

    I'm not gonna take a chance. I lost a female chameleon to MBD and I haven't heard 1 good reason to risk it. And if they're your wife's frogs they're not yours to risk. Sorry that was for your wife. I choose to have all my reptiles and my 2 frogs to have the lighting cuz MBD SUCKS

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    Default Re: Red eyed tree frog housing+ lighting

    What is the gain from not using the uvb? I'm trying to understand why people are so against them

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    Default Re: Red eyed tree frog housing+ lighting

    Quote Originally Posted by deniserothfus View Post
    I'm not gonna take a chance. I lost a female chameleon to MBD and I haven't heard 1 good reason to risk it. And if they're your wife's frogs they're not yours to risk. Sorry that was for your wife. I choose to have all my reptiles and my 2 frogs to have the lighting cuz MBD SUCKS

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    Lmao thats funny. No no i maintain every aspect and paid for every last frog. She just looks at them and talks to them like toddlers.

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    Default Re: Red eyed tree frog housing+ lighting

    Baby talk is very important too. Lol

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    Default Re: Red eyed tree frog housing+ lighting

    Deniserothfus - It may not sit well with you that I do not use UV lighting, but trust me, I care about my frogs very much. I have never had a frog with mbd because I supplement appropriately. There are MANY frog owners out there that do not use uv lighting and have no problems with MBD. Reptiles are a different animal, and I wouldn't keep a reptile without UV lighting, apples and oranges. I would say only about 50% of frog keepers use UV lighting, and only about 50% of those use it correctly. We do not see many cases of MBD except in those that do not supplement properly. I use repashy + calcium, as well as repcal +Vit D. I think this will forever be a controversy among frog owners, but my frogs are in perfect health. Also, please do not post 4 posts in a row, it gets hard to follow you, you can click "edit" if you need to add to your post within a certain time.

    Back to the original poster -- Yes, a taller tank would be better, but 2 would do well in the 18" cube. The ambient temp being correct will work just fine for them, in fact, that's better so their dries out less quickly. Well planted is a fantastic idea, especially for red eyes. It helps to maintain humidity and gives them places to sleep and hide if need be. Just keep in mind that red eyes are strictly nocturnal, mine do not wake until lights out, no matter whether I feed them or what is going on. They also go to sleep if I try to put any red or blue "observation" lighting on the tank. I just have to peek in with a flashlight at night and be satisfied hearing their trills
    2.0.3 Hyla versicolor "Eastern Gray Tree Frogs"
    2.2.0 Agalychnis callidryas "Red Eyed Tree Frogs"

    0.0.3 Dendrobates auratus "Turquoise and Bronze"
    0.0.1 Anaxyrus fowleri "Fowler's Toad"



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    Default Red eyed tree frog housing+ lighting

    Quote Originally Posted by Krispy View Post
    Wether my snakes, wtf's, retf's, firebellies(i call em bombers), beardies, or the rest of my long list of tank babies; they all have 1 65k full spectrum(grow) and 1uvb. Recently weve slowly been replacing the 65k's with led's. Take alot less power and last oh so long, but theyre mostly for the plants. The uvb is more preferance to how you keep your critters. I noticed brighter colors and better growth rates with my snakes. Im not brave enough to keep the frogs without uvb(and the wife would KILL me if anything happened to the frogs). Still, with the right supplements, it could be possible to nix the uvb.

    More preferance then anything i guess.
    There was a study done on the use of UV lighting on fbt's that mentioned that UV 'may' cause brighter coloration in them, but as far as UV lighting helping metabolize calcium, the study was inconclusive. The same was done with some species of darts. Although, the study on darts was more related to breeding and SLS. It was found that supplementing vitamin a was much more effective because the results from using UV were, you guessed it, inconclusive.

    Of course, you'll get those folk that say 'I use UV lighting and don't have any issues.' Of course, as long as you supplement with calcium, you shouldn't. It's the old question, is lack of evidence, evidence? But that is a philosophical question, not a scientific one.


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    Default Re: Red eyed tree frog housing+ lighting

    Thanks for the new info. We had an experience with MBD in 2 chameleons our female had to be put down because her limbs were so curved she never would have been able to move correctly. The male we were able to save and stop the progression. That's when we went over all the tanks and their set ups with the vet. I know chameleons are way different than frogs . There was definitely an MBD tone to the visit because that's what was happening at the time He looked at pics of all my tanks and said they were correct . I never want to see MBD again. It was horrific.

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    Default Re: Red eyed tree frog housing+ lighting

    I do supplements too regularly

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    Default Re: Red eyed tree frog housing+ lighting

    The growth rate in your snakes seems to be good evidence to me to have them . And my xray of Mrs Bighead s perfectly straight bones gives me peace of mind to keep up what I'm doing. Minus the rocks in the xray of course. My daughter put in the rocks and learned a lesson and then some. We are Soooo lucky to still have her. She just crossed her last milestone after the rock removal procedure and pooped all on her own on Saturday. I think she saw 2 more medicine bottles and said hell no I'll do it myself.

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